Discussion:Who can actually sign a payroll tax return?
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| {{ForumReplyPost|UserID=LSC CPA|Date=21 April 2009|Text=We are finding that this new requirement for paid preparers to sign the 941's is pretty cumbersome. We are a small CPA firm with many payroll clients. Several of us are CPA's, and some are not. We have one owner of the firm who is the one who signs all the tax returns (1040, 1120S etc.), since it's his firm - but we've not signed the 941's or 940's as paid preparer. Is a stamped signature ok, or can the CPA's of the firm who actually prepare the returns sign them, or must it be the owner of the firm only? We're trying to find a way around this but still be compliant. Need some input. Thanks.}} | {{ForumReplyPost|UserID=LSC CPA|Date=21 April 2009|Text=We are finding that this new requirement for paid preparers to sign the 941's is pretty cumbersome. We are a small CPA firm with many payroll clients. Several of us are CPA's, and some are not. We have one owner of the firm who is the one who signs all the tax returns (1040, 1120S etc.), since it's his firm - but we've not signed the 941's or 940's as paid preparer. Is a stamped signature ok, or can the CPA's of the firm who actually prepare the returns sign them, or must it be the owner of the firm only? We're trying to find a way around this but still be compliant. Need some input. Thanks.}} | ||
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| + | {{ForumReplyPost|UserID=LJACPA|Date=10 August 2009|Text=It looks like this was never responded to and I would also like to know the answer to this. I cannot believe, in researching something else that I came across this and unfortunately had this slip right by without realizing that this is now a requirement. Indeed, the instructions show that this is no longer optional, I hate it when I find out something after the fact. I don't have so many that it would become burdensome to sign, but would anyone have any idea what the consequences of not signing will mean?}} | ||
Revision as of 18:30, 10 August 2009
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Who can actually sign a payroll tax return?
| 14 November 2005 | |
| I do the payroll tax returns for our firm. I am not a CPA or enrolled agent, but I am a degreed accountant. I have been signing forms 941 for about 15 years, and was recently told by an IRS agent that I couldn't do that, even with a signed form 8821 - Tax Information Authorization from each client. The agent said that only someone with a formal Power of Attorney form (a 2848) could sign a 941. Since they recently changed this form to have it only accomodate CPA's and enrolled agents, I am stuck. Does anyone know- could my clients sign a form 8655 Reporting Agent Authorization for me so that I can continue to sign their payroll tax returns? As many of you know, payroll clients can be more helpless than most. If I give the forms to them to sign, many will not get filed timely, if at all. | |
| 15 November 2005 | |
| Sole Proprietorship - The individual owning the business
Corporation - (including an LLC treated as a corporation) The president, vice president, or other principal officer. Partnership (including an LLC treated as a partership) or unincorporated organiation - A responsible and duly authorized member or officer having knowledge of its affairs Single member limited liability company (LLC) treated as a disregarded entity - The owner of the Limited liability company. Trust or estate - The fiduciary. The return may also be signed by a duly authorized agent of the taxpayer if a valid power of attorney has been filed. | |
Cpasupport (talk|edits) said: | 16 November 2005 |
| I've signed many 941 forms too. They always process. Even if the IRS agent stated you can't sign them, they sure do process them. I mostly do this only on $0 returns that I'm sure about the $0 nature though. It avoids a whole lot of hassle. Even if the IRS audited the returns, then I think the worst the IRS would do is make the taxpayer sign them? Just for FYI. | |
| 21 November 2005 | |
| I'm a bookkeeper and registered tax preparer. I still sign the 941's because they wouldn't move out the door unless I did. I used to communicate with the IRS on processing problems but they won't talk to me any more but in a recent "You're not authorized to discuss this with us," they never mentioned that I shouldn't have signed the returns.
I agree that it probably isn't a problem unless they have a question on it and then you have to respond with the client's letterhead. | |
| 5 December 2005 | |
| Sign away!!!!!!!!! If you call the irs 50 times with the same question unless you talk to the same person more then once you almost always get a different ans. There shouldn't be a problem. Seems like you covered all the important forms to do so. | |
| 5 December 2005 | |
| I too am a degreed accountant and not a CPA(yet)or an EA. I work for a CPA firm and do not sign any returns. The reason is this I am not collecting the fees for theses returns or assuming the liability. If I prepare the returns than I do so with enough time to send to the client for them to sign. As far as i have researched, which I am currently doing, I can sign any return I prepare for a client as a paid preparer. I cannot represent this TP in front of an IRS agent, only a customer Service Representative. Publication 947 found on a search of the IRS website should give you all the info you need to know. | |
EnrolledAgent (talk|edits) said: | 6 December 2005 |
| IRS has allowed for facsimile signatures on employment tax returns. This might be of help to you. | |
Haaland tax (talk|edits) said: | 9 December 2005 |
| The important issue here is not who has the authority to sign the return, but who has the liability for the signed return. The IRS has held signers liabile for the payment of the tax liability on 941's. As CPAsupport points out, he/she signs only $0 returns. I personally sign only $0 941's also with $0 wages. None of us need the exposure for tax and penalties. | |
| 26 August 2006 | |
| I am an enrolled agent trying to fill out form 2848 (power of attorney) so I can sign payroll tax returns (example form 941) for clients. However Part II, Line 5 states that the taxpayer can only authorize another to sign returns if they are a) sick, b) out of the country, or c) other good cause. What do they mean by other good cause? According to the instructions, this line must be filled out and answered if they want to authorize someone else to sign the returns. | |
| 26 August 2006 | |
| Well? Who is signing the forms on all this electronically submitted stuff? The client isn't hitting the submit button. How about when it is third party prepared like thru Intuit Payroll, or ADP, or any other "complete" payroll aggregation service? | |
| August 26, 2006 | |
| Gosix - Intuit uses a substitute Form 8655 that allows them to sign their clients' PR returns.
Jabrams, yes, if you have not already done so, you should have them complete Form 8655. You do not need to be a CPA to receive authorization to sign the PR returns. | |
| 26 August 2006 | |
| We process payroll for all our client in our firm and if the return is $0 then we sign with our company's name. However, if you check the box that you are the person authorized to discuss the return with the IRS , I don't see any problems why they (IRS) will question that. For liability purposes is always good to have your client sign the final return. | |
BottomLine (talk|edits) said: | 27 August 2006 |
| I would NEVER sign a return (especially a payroll tax return) for a client. I don't want the liability of additional tax/penalties. I do the returns in a timely manner and then get them to the client at least three days before the due date. Most clients are trainable if you stress to them the high fines for filing even one day late. I stress to them that I get the reports to them in time and will not pay any penalties because they simply forgot to mail the reports.
I've stopped doing any POA's. Doesn't do any good since the IRS won't talk to you anyway. I do some subcontract work for a CPA and he says he has the same problem - IRS won't talk to a CPA with POA or any other type of paperwork. | |
| August 29, 2006 | |
| Interesting. I've never heard of the IRS not acknowledging the POA. I haven't had any problems with it. | |
| 29 August 2006 | |
| BottomLine I don't know where you practice by in NY they do talk to us when we call them. Again if you are the authorized person they don't object. If the return is zero and you mail yourself on time there is no interest and penalties. That's the only time that we sign a return and mail for the client. | |
BottomLine (talk|edits) said: | 29 August 2006 |
| Was talking with another accountant who said he had a POA for a client. IRS wouldn't talk with him. He got client into his office. Accountant and client were on different telephone extensions in his office. IRS told client wouldn't talk with client as long as accountant (with POA) was on telephone extension. This is in Florida. | |
| 31 August 2006 | |
| I would never, ever sign a 941 or other payroll return for a client. I represent delinquent clients only and I sure as hell don't want IRS looking at whether I have any 6672 liability. Do you feel like spending even two minutes defending it? It's a bad practice and shouldn't be done. If an employee of mine did it, they would be terminated immediately. | |
| 7 January 2009 | |
| what are you doing about e-filing signatures? do you e-file any state returns? lots of states require it now. the irs will require 941's to be e-=filed soon. We also do not want to assume liaiblity at our company, but we DO want to e-file for convenience & profitability... | |
Nbrcruncher (talk|edits) said: | 7 January 2009 |
| I am a unenrolled tax preparer in California and I do bookkeeping and taxes for small business owners. Should the client get into a problem or question on a return and I need to discuss with IRS I call and fax them a POA with unenrolled preparer checked. They talk to me every time. | |
| 7 January 2009 | |
| I never sign client tax returns, ever. It's not my job. Or problem.I just prepare them. | |
| January 7, 2009 | |
| Rkr, you should note that paid preparers are now required to sign at least the Form 940. | |
| 7 January 2009 | |
| The paid preparer signature on the 940 and 941 that must be signed is not the same signature that an owner, officer or other responsible party is required to sign. A preparer can sign both but it is certainly not advisable. | |
| January 7, 2009 | |
| I wasn't aware until just now that the 941 must also be signed by paid preparers. Thanks IRS. | |
Michaelstar (talk|edits) said: | 7 January 2009 |
| Yes - see revised 941 form instructions as of October 2008. | |
| 9 January 2009 | |
| so who is actually signing the e-filed returns? how does the preparer protect themselves from liability on e-filed returns if they are the ones that send them? | |
| 21 April 2009 | |
| We are finding that this new requirement for paid preparers to sign the 941's is pretty cumbersome. We are a small CPA firm with many payroll clients. Several of us are CPA's, and some are not. We have one owner of the firm who is the one who signs all the tax returns (1040, 1120S etc.), since it's his firm - but we've not signed the 941's or 940's as paid preparer. Is a stamped signature ok, or can the CPA's of the firm who actually prepare the returns sign them, or must it be the owner of the firm only? We're trying to find a way around this but still be compliant. Need some input. Thanks. | |
| 10 August 2009 | |
| It looks like this was never responded to and I would also like to know the answer to this. I cannot believe, in researching something else that I came across this and unfortunately had this slip right by without realizing that this is now a requirement. Indeed, the instructions show that this is no longer optional, I hate it when I find out something after the fact. I don't have so many that it would become burdensome to sign, but would anyone have any idea what the consequences of not signing will mean? | |
