Discussion:Married filing separately and living apart

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Seems to be we could subdivide our board into not only CPAs, EAs and others in-between, but also into those who throw around the 'Fr' word at every chance and those who don't. }} Seems to be we could subdivide our board into not only CPAs, EAs and others in-between, but also into those who throw around the 'Fr' word at every chance and those who don't. }}
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 +{{ForumReplyPost|UserID=HAPPY TAX|Date=9 January 2009|Text=Judging from some people's posts, it does seem that a few folks must have their lawyers, their E&O insurance agents, and the IRS CID all on speed dial, and can't understand why everyone doesn't.}}

Revision as of 17:14, 9 January 2009

Discussion Forum Index --> Basic Tax Questions --> Married filing separately and living apart
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Married filing separately and living apart

Maughact (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
If a spouse has been living in a nursing home for more than a year, is that considered

living apart for married filing separately?

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
There is no requirement that the spouses live apart in order to file MFS.

Taxea (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
This would be the same as a military spouse stationed away from home...for purposes of attempting to increase EIC or other credits the answer is a resounding NO. Same applies to HH status, it doesn't apply.

The real question here is why is MFS being considered? taxea

HAPPY TAX (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
There's not enough information to answer. The easy assumption is that the nursing home stay comes under the heading of a temporary absence and that's the reason the spouses haven't lived together. But that's just an assumption. See the final paragraph in column 1 on page 21 of Pub 544, and the use of the word "may." It could be that the couple has split up permanently in anticipation of divorce and the fact that one of them is in a nursing home is irrelevant to the determination of the filing status. There's also the possibility of MFS but claiming an exemption for the spouse if the spouse meets the conditions on page 9 of the same publication. Simply saying "nursing home for more than a year" is inconclusive.

Maughact (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
My client's husband is receiving social security and was looking for a way not to pay taxes on

it since he's living in the nursing home.

TAXBILLY (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
Social Security is taxable under MFS.

taxbilly

Maughact (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
Not if living apart.

Taxea (talk|edits) said:

8 January 2009
They are not considered living apart if the only reason he is not in the home is because he is in a nursing home. taxea

Riley2 (talk|edits) said:

9 January 2009
Maughact, I read RIA's editorial comment on the nursing home issue. RIA editors feel that residence in a nursing home for the entire year would be considered as living apart. See FTC J-1457.

Taxea (talk|edits) said:

9 January 2009
RIA is not IRS...This is a case of trying not to pay taxes due which is fraud if, as I posted,

They are not considered living apart if the only reason he is not in the home is because he is in a nursing home. taxea

HAPPY TAX (talk|edits) said:

9 January 2009
Oops, I had the reference publication botched up. The paragraph I meant to refer to is in IRS Pub 501 (TY07), pg 14, column 1. It's repeated in IRS Pub 501 (TY08) on pg 16 in column 1. It reads, "If a person is placed in a nursing home for an indefinite period of time to receive constant medical care, the absence may be considered temporary." [Emphasis added]*

We don't know if he was placed in the nursing home or chose to move there voluntarily to get away from his wife's nagging. And the phrasing "absence may be considered temporary" leaves the obverse phrasing open, meaning it may also be considered nontemporary.

If one enters the discussion with the ironclad conclusion that "nursing home" equates to temporary separation no matter the circumstances, the reasons, or the duration, then one's mind is made up, and any arguments to the contrary are going to be deemed irrelevant no matter what they are. On the other hand, if one enters the discussion only assuming that "nursing home" probably equates to temporary separation, then we at least have a rebuttable presumption open to argument. And if you begin with a presumption that's rebuttable, then by definition you have to allow for the possibility that the presumption may indeed ultimately be rebutted.

I don't equate the phrase "My client's husband is receiving social security and was looking for a way not to pay taxes on it since he's living in the nursing home" to fraud. Why can't it be a tax minimizing strategy to which the client may or may not be entitled. At the very least, it's a legitimate question with a thus far unsettled answer. I don't dismiss the strategy out-of-hand, at least based on the limited facts available so far. If the guy has found a loophole and his facts allow him the benefit of that loophole, then so be it.

[*For Pete's sake, spare me the tired, threadbare litany that these are only pubs and not the Almighty Code. I am aware. They may not settle the issue, but at least they raise it. So far I haven't seen anything that settles it, but the pubs and the RIA reference are nibbling away at the presumption. I remain of the belief that it's a fact-specific case for which we simply don't have sufficient facts to come down one way or another.]

PS: I know I need to do a profile. I just don't have any credentials worth mentioning.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

9 January 2009
Depends on the ox being gored: the absence is temporary if Section 121 needs to be met, but I am not that sure about certain nursing homes and assisted living facilities.

Having been personally acquainted with such situations, I would wonder how anyone could have made my spouse part of my household when she had little or no memory of its inhabitants, what it looked like or ability to participate in the life going on outside the home. Here is one of my more optimistic slants of what was happening in 2001: http://www.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/255628

Seems to be we could subdivide our board into not only CPAs, EAs and others in-between, but also into those who throw around the 'Fr' word at every chance and those who don't.

HAPPY TAX (talk|edits) said:

9 January 2009
Judging from some people's posts, it does seem that a few folks must have their lawyers, their E&O insurance agents, and the IRS CID all on speed dial, and can't understand why everyone doesn't.