Discussion:I can't get any work done with all this research
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| There are exceptions. I even run into the rare client that actually appreciates the fact we have overhead (beyond the IRS pubs.lol). Can you believe it?}} | There are exceptions. I even run into the rare client that actually appreciates the fact we have overhead (beyond the IRS pubs.lol). Can you believe it?}} | ||
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| + | {{ForumReplyPost|UserID=RJM|Date=3 March 2008|Text=I bill all my returns hourly, including research. If the research is something I probably should have known, I don't bill it. Also if it is research related to new laws each year, I don't bill it. That results in fees going up and down for clients in different years, but they all know my billing procedure and don't mind it. A good example is sale of a long-term mutual fund investment with dividend reinvestment and where client did not save all confirmations or statements. These can take many hours to reconstruct, and I tell the clients up front to try to get answers first from brokerages, etc.}} | ||
Revision as of 18:17, 3 March 2008
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> I can't get any work done with all this research
| 2 March 2008 | |
| Maybe I should only take "easy" clients, those that don't have anything I don't already know the answer to. Probably not charging enough, but I can't bill for "research." April can't come fast enough...... | |
| March 2, 2008 | |
| Ditto, and I read (almost) all the threads 'cuz I don't know what I don't know...
It's all fascinating, and informative, and educational, and TIME CONSUMING. I feel like an addict ;-) | |
| 2 March 2008 | |
| No, no, no. Keep April away until I finish all this research! I have to finish the research to finish the returns to get paid... | |
| 2 March 2008 | |
| I came on board 5 or so years ago just to help out with the simple ones. I turned into the researcher, and ended up learning about much more than I ever dreamed I would, and I never really minded it too much (I'm a student at heart, I guess). But this year, it is rare to have a return that I don't have to research something on. I can't believe the goofy things I've run into, except after reading the discussions out here, it seems others have them too. It's only the beginning of March, and I'm already tired of research. I am way behind on my S Corps (had planned not to file extensions this year), and finally had to say no to any more personal returns until I get them done. We'll see how long that lasts! | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Sara
You said: "but I can't bill for "research." Since when? You can if you contract with the client for it. He is what you say, "My hourly rate for solving this kind of issue if $XXX. I can help you with this issue if you pay me for it. I think it will take about X hours." If they hesitate. You say, "The tax law is incedibly complex. NO one person can possibly be familar with the myraid issues that come up. Even in my small practice." The client knows up front what the deal is. If they say "no" you move on to work that PAYS. If they say "yes" you do work that PAYS. Are you a "Volunteer" tax preparer? JUST SAY NO | |
| March 3, 2008 | |
| Good point - I get hung-up with thinking I should know EVERYTHING automatically (like Kevin, Riley2, etc) and the more time I spend here, the more I realize that I don't know much at all.
The ability and resources to do the research has value and should be billed! My new mantra. | |
| March 3, 2008 | |
| If it's something that you SHOULD know, then billing for it isn't reasonable. Making others pay for our education ended when we left home. But for something out of the ordinary, absolutely you bill for it. Now, we'll leave it to you to decide what you should know, and what's out of the ordinary.
I guess I forget to appreciate the early days of my tax life when I had others to pester with all my questions....but relax, there will come a day when you know a bunch more than you don't, and most returns are automatic and easy. One of the ways that happens is in doing your research, for then you know and remember. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| I took classes, I do a lot of reading, but I still find that the more research I do, the more I find out about little details that I didn't know anything about before. For example, the corporate tax class I took never said anything about Form 5500. I learned about that by reading. It always makes me nervous wondering what else I don't know about. Every year I feel like I know less of a % of what I need to know! | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Remember, Riley and Kevin are probably billing at higher bill rates than you are because they already know the stuff you are looking up. Researching the answers to the questions you don't already know (or even confirming the answers to those you THINK you know) is part of the job. It's billable. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| JR1
you said: "If it's something that you SHOULD know, then billing for it isn't reasonable" True. However, we are all ignorant. Just in different areas. You said: "most returns are automatic and easy"
But he doesn't understand EIC, farm tax work, dependency rules, etc, etc. etc. He would have to "research" those issues. In the end is it a moral choice? Does your conscience object? or an economic choice? What is your lifestyle? At what level are you willing to work and to live? Will the market dictate your knowledge by rewarding you will profits above what others earn by virtue of you "additional knowledge"? I bumped into a potential client who pays $2,000 to her stockbroker EVERY year for "financial planning". There are no meetings, no documents, no discussions, just a brief phone call, at most, from the "financial planner". The $2,000 annual "financial planning" fee is highly improper in my view.
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| March 3, 2008 | |
| Good points indeed. Value added service, what it's worth to the client, etc. matter most. And when you know that you know, your value goes up big time. That's why getting on-going training, doing research, hanging out here, all add to your own sense of value. And it's what separates true professionals from the rest. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| The market will not dictate much for your services if you serve the middle class, simply because they don't have the money no matter how much you know. Or, they don't have the money for that, money for the car is another story. There are exceptions.
Hence, my argument that some preparers should get an award (monetary?) for patriotism. They reduce the tax gap, for free. The same thing is hitting the practice of law now for the average practitioner. I may know the world about estate planning, but my "target audience" can save a buck online. | |
| March 3, 2008 | |
| Oh, I don't know Crow. Indeed, I disagree. It's the retail shops that can't dictate much for their services since the low income view it as mere commodity, and geez, since the retailers sell it as such, big surprise! For the middle and up class, people appreciate good service and the freedom to not have to think or worry about this stuff. And to find us all year long when mail comes! And clear explanations when laws change. So don't sell yourself short. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| There seems to be more money in cleaning up messes, than in preventing them. However, by the time the mess needs cleaning up, they are usually broke to boot. I can see a trend toward "tax representation" that will end in disaster, with far stricter IRS rules.
While I don't sell myself short (usually), I just don't like the look of things. There are exceptions. I even run into the rare client that actually appreciates the fact we have overhead (beyond the IRS pubs.lol). Can you believe it? | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| I bill all my returns hourly, including research. If the research is something I probably should have known, I don't bill it. Also if it is research related to new laws each year, I don't bill it. That results in fees going up and down for clients in different years, but they all know my billing procedure and don't mind it. A good example is sale of a long-term mutual fund investment with dividend reinvestment and where client did not save all confirmations or statements. These can take many hours to reconstruct, and I tell the clients up front to try to get answers first from brokerages, etc. | |
