Discussion:New Clients Inc Marketing Program

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Discussion Forum Index --> Business Growth Community --> New Clients Inc Marketing Program


Kokomo (talk|edits) said:

12 April 2008
Has anyone tried this marketing program?

My experience so far has been poor overall so, I want to get a feel for what should be an average expectation from the program. In my opinion, the difference between what they advertise/guarantee and what actually happens is quite dramatic. I am halfway through the program but want to consider whatever I spent as sunk cost and kill the program. It's very expensive to run and I want to stop the bleeding soon.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

12 April 2008
stop the bleeding. stop it now.

Jonathan57 (talk|edits) said:

24 April 2008
Kokomo, I feel your pain. NCI has proven themselves to be rank amateurs in selecting and training a CSR as the contract stated. They failed to set up an appropriate program for me as well - I promptly killed it. Have you spoken with a lawyer yet? Depending on their degree of negligence you may be able to recover some of your funds, which is what I am in the process of right now.

Please contact me - it would be great if we could get a class action together if we can locate enough other accountants who have been lied to and defrauded by NCI. aimosaku@gmail.com

Cpa925 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Kokomo and Jonathan57 - do you guys have an update on your experience with NCI? I have just started discussions with NCI and "Build Your Firm." Any idea of their general success rate? Also, did you check out NCI's referrals prior to signing up?

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
This might be some interesting reading.

Discussion:GoodAccountans.com_-_anyone_have_insights?

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
Fred beat me to the punch. I was just about to post that link but refreshed the page to see if there were additional posts. From what I know, GoodAccountant.com & NCI are pretty much the same program.

In addition to the link in Fred's post, here's a couple other discussions where NCI gets brief mention.

Discussion:Marketing_an_accounting_and_tax_practice

Discussion:Anyone_else_been_screwed_by_NCI?

Discussion:UNIVERSAL_ACCOUNTING

Discussion:Practice_marketing

(legal disclaimer to avoid being sued by NCI, GA, or any other marketing firm: The opinions in the above posts are those of the original posters and are not mine or taxalmanac.org. I'm 100% positive that NCI, GA, and all other marketing firms are fine outstanding reputable companies run by people full of integrity. And if not full of integrity I'm sure they are full of something. I'm sure the negative opinions (eg. "been screwed") are based solely on the original poster's own personal experiences with the organization, and they feel that these organization are not honest but in fact take advantage of other people and make profits that are clearly questionable. This opinion is just an honest assessment by the original poster giving their personal opinion and not meant to be the position of this bulletin board or me. Once again I'd like to emphasize my own personal opinion is that NCI, GA, and all other marketing firms being discussed and reading this bulletin board are fine, outstanding, and reputable companies run by people full of, ummm, full of, . . . something. Oh yes, full of integrity. Full of Integrity - Salt of the Earth type people.)

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
I tell ya what, I'm thinking of starting my own referral program. Send me $2,500 every 6 months and I promise to send you at least three good <by my standards> lead/referrals a month.

This new program is revolutionary in idea because I am going to pay potential customers to listen/read your info before they say no. I figure if I pay potential business owners $50 to listen to your phone call, that's $900 in expenses, $1,600 in my pockets.

Who wants to help me write up that business plan?


Trillium (talk|edits) said:

29 June 2010
FYI to those interested in NCI: Yesterday, a new user named Brucej used the "edit this page" tab at the top of this page to remove the first three posts of this discussion (Kokomo, Fred, Jonathan). After that edit, Cpa925's post appeared to be the first post in the discussion.

Brucej's edit was a clear violation of the TaxAlmanac Code of Conduct, and his edit was reverted, so that the discussion went back to its pre-edit state. He was also provided with information about TaxAlmanac's policies (on his talk page).

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

29 June 2010
I don't think Trillium will mind if I post this primer on Aribtration law here either.

I want to speak about something that has nothing to do with Jonathan or NCI.

I want to speak about arbitration in general. NEVER agree to pre-dispute arbitration.

In other words, never sign a contract where you agree to arbitration BEFORE a dispute arises. NEVER.

It's fine if the parties agree AFTER a dispute arises to arbitrate a matter, or go to mediation AFTER a dispute arises. Never agree to this in advance of a dispute.

Remember folks, YOUR tax dollars pay for the local court system, and the local jury. They are there for YOU. Don't lose the right to have the case heard by a local jury in America. You will certainly miss that right once you lose it.

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Crow, why should a non-attorney A-L-W-A-Y-S avoid arbitration up front? I smell a self-serving attitude on your part, but I'm occassionally educable. This might be one of those times. My not-terribly-strongly-held opinion is this: when providing services, I'm better off on balance having an arbitration clause in my engagement letter than not. Please edjumicate me.

Kokomo (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Thanks Trillium for straightening out the violators of proper conduct.

To answer some of your questions...I stopped the NCI program. I have no idea of the average success rate but, I did talk to a few (on the NCI list of references) who have had some success.

In my opinion, just like any marketing program, ALL of the pieces (hiring, telemarketers, sales person, list of prospects, NCI person helping set up, and YOU) have to fit together well and you probably need some luck too. In my case, I think there were problems in all of these pieces. The NCI program is essentially a telemarketing program to get bookkeeping clients. Does telemarketing work? Given the right mix of ingredients it can work well and on the flip side can be a very expensive adventure. You cannot let it run on auto-pilot and assume you will see good prospects at your office. Remeber that you will be spending a lot of money every week (just on wages) so you MUST be fully involved to have even a semblance of a chance of success.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Not saying the reason the posts were edited were this, but if you google "New Clients, Inc negative comments" this thread is at the top of that list.

Crow, I was also under the assumption that arbitration was better, but then again, if all these companies have them as a clause, it probably means that it favors the company or it wouldn't be there.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
NCI uses arbitration because it is the least expensive process for both parties to resolve any differences that cannot be addressed otherwise. In the 24 years I have been in busines we have worked with over 4,000 firms throughout the country. We also have a few clients in Canada, Autralia and England as well.

In all this time and with all of these clients we have gone to arbitration a total of four times. Two were favaorable to us and two were in favor of the client. So, contary to a few of the opinions expressed regarding this topic, in my experience arbitration favors neither party.

I would also like to set the record straight on a few other false statements regarding exacty what we do. NCI is not "just a telemarketing program." Our marketing process uses a combination of methods including email marketing, website marketing through search engine optimization and pay per click advertising, appointment setting, sales training for the accountant and for our Plan 2 clients, the hiring and training of sales personnel for their accounting firm. We also offer practice managament training for accountants that want to learn better ways to run and manage their practice. The management training is conducted by two CPAs that have a combined 34 years of experience with the NCI system. Both of those clients have built multi million dollar firms using our marketing program.

NCI and Goodaccountants.com are not the same. NCI is not a referral service while goodaccountants.com is. We teach accountants how to become better at marketing, they don't.

I welcome and encourage anyone considering doing business with us to thoroughly reaseach my company's history. We are members of the Better Business Bureau since January 1994 and have earned an A+ rating.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
I don't know. Deleting the negative comments from others and adding your own self-serving positive comments makes the firm sound even fishier in my opinion. Makes it look like something unethical is happening somewhere. Or maybe it was just a happenstance of a series of honest mistakes. You decide.

CathysTaxes (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
I'm with Kevin. I don't appreciate users on this forum censuring someone else's posts. The moderators don't even do that. That surely is an unprofessional act.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Wow you bought an A+ rating from the BBB. That's rather impressive.

http://www.thetaxbook.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15317

AZ-Tax  Senior Member  	

The new BBB, buy your rating? My BBB report states I have been in business since 1985. I have 0 complaints and I have an "A" rating. I just read an article on Goldline and upon looking at their BBB report, they have 45 complaints with an "A+" rating but Goldline is an "accredited" business. Wow, I am so impressed, NOT!.

In the late 80's when I first became a member of the BBB, the BBB stood for business ethics but today, it seems to stand for money. I was only a member 1 yr in the late 80's and never became a member again. I am listed on the BBB website due to me being registered with the BBB for which most businesses don't know you don't have to pay a penny to be registered with your local BBB.

http://www.la.bbb.org/Business-Repor...l-Inc-35002328

--end quote--

Cpa925 - care to give an update on your discussions with NCI & Build a Herd? Love to hear your experience.

JDcpa (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
As another point of view, I have attended 2 NCI seminars and found them beneficial-particularly the Practice Management seminar. The sales program is not a great fit for my firm, so I elected to instead implement a modified version of the NCI model. I can't speak to their ability to hire and train, but I found the folks with NCI that I met to be nice people. And for the record, I have no affiliation with NCI, just stating another opinion.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
let me know if you ever receive the record, JDcpa. Do you even own a phonograph?

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
I have written extensively on tax practice marketing and I will tell you this:

When trying to build a client base, THERE ARE NO SHORTCUTS.

You have to do the work yourself, which takes time. From my interviews and my own experience, the best (and most cost effective) marketing is:

1. Google Adwords (targeted to your region or area of expertise-- you have to have a website, of course)


2. Blogging, Facebook, Linked-In and other social media-- these are a huge time drain, but they are also free, and a great way to get your name out there if your budget is very limited

3. I've heard very good things about www.BookkeepingHelp.com as a referral source from more than one practicioner. Someone let me know if you've had a bad experience with them, because I've heard nothing but good things.

4. If you offer bookkeeping, the Intuit "ProAdvisor" website is an excellent referral source. Sure, you have to update your ProAdvisor certification every year, but they give you a free website and it gets millions of hits every year.

5. Don't be lazy about online marketing. Get a nice photograph, and try to keep your online profiles updated. The last thing you want is a potential client to find you on the web and they try and call and e-mail you and none of the contact info is valid.

I started a free tax marketing newsletter [1] last month-- it's free to sign up and you can unsubscribe at any time. We will pay for short articles, so please feel free to forward your marketing tips to me, because I really want input on what others are doing.

Tax Writer

JDcpa (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Of course not Kevin, "record" is code word for the bribe I expect to receive for being the one with something nice to say. Just kidding...

JDcpa (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
Tax Writer-that is a good list. I belonged to Bookkeepinghelp.com for the last year and just let my subscription expire because I was not able to directly trace any revenue to that listing.

Same with ProAdvisor-I got nothing from that so I let that lapse also. Again, different things work for different people/firms so I am not condemning any of these avenues, just stating that they didn't work for me. I'm of the opinion that I will try a variety of things and keep the ones that work for me and drop those that don't.

Kokomo (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
For the record, I do not consider NCI to be any type of a scam program. As with most products/services out in the market place, you have to be cognizant of the fact that there could be a gap between what's advertised and what actually occurs (Haven't you tried one of those "magical cleaners" you see on TV only to realize the reality). I do not want to disparage NCI but simply wanted others to know not to expect things as advertised -- which in my opinion applies to almost all businesses and not just NCI.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
JD already got the record, Kokomo. You're too late. If you ask nicely, maybe they'll let you download an MP3 though.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

30 June 2010
From Fletch: Crow, why should a non-attorney A-L-W-A-Y-S avoid arbitration up front?

Fletch, I'm talking about primarily when you are the customer.

Why should you give up a right you have to a jury trial prior to a dispute arising? What are you getting in return, as a customer?

Also, there is a huge difference between arbitration and mediation. Arbitration as used in most of these contracts is binding, no real appeal, no right to a real trial if you are treated wrongly.

Arbitration is not necessarily cheap, and it sure ain't convenient. You have to really know the rules. For instance, let's say the contract calls for aribitration according to the rules and procedures of XYL aribitration association. What exactly are those rules, where is the forum located? The forum for arbitration could be all the way across the country.

My point is just this: when you are the customer never give away a right unless you get something equal in return for giving up that right. The founders and pioneer state legislators thought the local jury was a good idea so that companies were accoutable to the PUBLIC. Not to some arbitrator in a closed proceeding half way across the country.

Keep in mind, I have no problems with people agreeing to arbitrate or mediate AFTER a dispute arises. Anyone can agree to this.

The REAL national problem I am complaining about are these large corporations ramming mandatory pre-disute arbitration clauses down the throat of the public, and burying it in the small print. "Sign Here". Joe Q Public has zero bargaining power against such a large corp. Many of them are doing this. It's unfair and should be made illegal.

Actionbsns (talk|edits) said:

1 July 2010
This company and the one that hollered at Anarchrist seem to be asking us to pay them to be our Sales Manager. One of the reasons I have my own business is the autonomy. If I wanted a Sales Manager beating me down, I'd go to work for someone else. I sat in on a session with a group like these many years ago and was underwhelmed.

Nelmia (talk|edits) said:

5 July 2010
I used NCI program II in miami 5 years ago and I was very sucessfull. I sold the practice in Miami and moved to Jacksonville and the program has not been good. I am not sure if it is Jacksonville,FL The economy or what, the only thing I can tell you is that the same marketing program worked in Miami and not Jacksonville. I also think they have sold the program to too may accountant's in the jacksonville area. So it appears that there is at leat 4 of us going for the limited client base that is Jacksonville.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

5 July 2010
Nelmia,

Which program did you purchase and can you give more details as to how successful it was?

Actionbsns (talk|edits) said:

6 July 2010
Nelmia, what exactly did they do for you that you couldn't do for yourself?

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

7 July 2010
IMO, the more salient questions are 1) What exactly did they do for you that you CHOOSE not to do? .....or..... 2) What exactly did they do for you that you didn't have the TEMPERAMENT to do? The difference between my questions vs. Actionsbsns is huge.

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

7 July 2010
Our marketing process uses a combination of methods including email marketing, website marketing through search engine optimization and pay per click advertising


This sounds like marketing that someone could do themselves; I find that many accountants are intimidated by the internet, but honestly, if you can use Facebook, then you can do your own internet marketing. It's a great thing to do in the off-season.

E-mail marketing is easy if you have a mailing list, and every accountant SHOULD be getting current e-mails from every single client. An email marketing program is easy and legal if you use opt-in newsletter services like Constant Contact, IContact, or Mailchimp. And they are CHEAP-- $0-$15 per month. You just have to take the time to do it. Don't you have one day per month to dedicate to this? Why pay someone else for something you can develop and do yourself?

And as for the "pay per click" advertising, that's also very easy. Anyone can set up their own AdWords or Yahoo Marketing campaign. Cost: about $50 per month, up to as much as you want to spend (you set the maximum).

That's it. It's really not that hard. Believe me, if you can understand tax law, figuring out online marketing is easy.

Tax Writer

Nelmia (talk|edits) said:

30 July 2010
In Miami, I did program II in Jacksonville I took a refresher course of program I. The reason I took the second course was because they promised to show you how to do internet marketing. They did not show me anything I did not know( keywords, pay for click etc.). in response to Fletch, I did everything that they told me to do both times. The also showed me that a professional salesperson is better that a CPA in hard sales, at least in my case. The trick to this is you need to be able to afford it if the projections do not hold. Which is what happened to me in Jacksonville.

Eduardo (talk|edits) said:

23 August 2010
I used the NCI program (Plan 2) back in mid 2000's in a major metro area. My experience is that it's not all that it's cracked up to be. It does work, as we did receive clients from it. However, the majority of the clients that we received were low quality (most, as it turned out, are out of business now). The fees that my CSR quoted were too low, especially considering that he was getting 15% of the fees as a commission.

The guy that came out to do the training was your typical salesguy. From what my CSR told me at the time, he ticked off a couple of potential clients by going on about payroll tax filings, even though these businesses had a payroll service doing their payroll. Needless to say, we didn't land those clients.

We stopped the program after about a year and a half (my CSR quit, and I never replaced him). The payroll costs to run the program are expensive (weekly payroll, commissions, etc), and as stated, the clients that you land are generally low-quality, although we still have a few of them today, and for the most part, they're good quality clients.

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

24 August 2010
I think the best way to evaluate this is compared-to-what-else-you're-doing marketing-wise. For those who tried it and it didn't work optimally, what do you do that works optimally (high-paying clients who comply with your way of working)?

Bynameonly (talk|edits) said:

12 October 2010
Business owners who are unhappy with NCI, would you consider a class action against them in order to see a return on your investment?

Many of you are correct in your concerns over the program. Talk is easy, and maybe their program had worked in the past or as they like to say "It has worked for 25 years" well almost everyone in the program from the East Coast to West has had some sort of problems.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
I agree completely. If there are that many unhappy NCI clients that feel my company has not fullfilled our professional and contractual obligations to them then by all means get together and file that suit. I also agree that "talk is easy" as Bynameonly states. That's why I am issuing the following challenge. For every single unhappy NCI client you find I'll provide 20 of my clients that will tell you that working with my firm has been one of the most rewarding and gratifying professional experiences they've had.

Look, let's be honest here. No one, including NCI, has a perfect track record. Every company has some clients where expectations were not met. Having said that, NCI has always worked hard to rectify any client issues in an effort to have those clients be successful with our marketing programs. This does not guarantee success. To be frank we have clients like many of you who don't do what we ask. They don't follow our marketing program and then want to blame us or other circumstances when things don't go well. Sometimes circumstances arise that are beyond either party's ability to control that interfere with the success of the program as well.

Notice how Bynameonly remains anonymous. He/she won't say who he/she is so I can't respond with facts about their particular situation or offer more assistance to fix whatever problems they have encountered.

Bruce Clark, CEO

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
wait for it

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
"For every single unhappy NCI client you find I'll provide 20 of my clients that will tell you that working with my firm has been one of the most rewarding and gratifying professional experiences they've had."

Bruce, I'll ask you the same questions I asked Norman Deane

Of the four posts from users having experience with you, all four were negative. Sad to say, that is typical of every bulletin board & yahoo group I see when GA & New Clients Inc is asked about. Why is that? Why aren't the yahoo groups filled with praise for GA & NCI? Those groups have lots of praise for other organizations so it's obviously not because they're filled with a bunch of old cranks who don't know how to do anything other than complain. Discussion:GoodAccountans.com_-_anyone_have_insights?

Why does the positive feedback have to come directly from you? Why is it that the positive feedback rarely shows up on these bulletin boards?

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
Anarch...What marketing-for-accountants organizations are "praised" on this forum? on other groups/forums?

Eduardo (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
I did the Plan 2 because I was sick of working for someone else and wanted to start my own practice and get clients fast. Since I stopped using NCI several years ago, my income has increased substantially. My clients arrive via referrals through an networking organization that I belong to, plus relationships with financial planners and attorneys. Those are high-quality clients, unlike most of the clients that we received via the NCI program, which were low-quality (proven by the fact that all of those clients are out of business).

I'm not saying it doesn't work for everyone, just that it's not all it's cracked up to be. I have no regrets, since I was desperate to leave my employer at the time, and there were no practices for sale in our area at the time. As stated in an above post, we still have a couple of the NCI business clients, and their good quality clients. However, the vast majority were crap.

TRcpa (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
fletch, build your firm and frank salman have received pretty good feedback on this board

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

29 December 2010
Fletch, I just stated "other organizations", not limited to marketing organizations. The point being that these boards and yahoo groups aren't just a bunch of cranks sitting around complaining and that being why NCI & GA are always bad mouthed.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
Told ya to wait for it.  :-)

Jap2112 (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
My firm started the NCI Marketing Program in October 2010. We are very pleased with the success of the program as we have obtained over 100 new clients since then. Don't kid yourself, it is a great deal of hard work getting the program started, requiring time and financial commitment. Before beginning the program we did a great deal of due dilligence and contacted approximately 25 to 30 firms who were using the program. All had mixed results as far as client accumulation goes, but every one of them did add clients. We purchased the Plan II Program and I personally participated in every job interview (CSR and Appointment Setter) and sat through every minute of the training to better understand the program. I am also heavily involved in the sales process (although we do have a CSR) but after a year have transferred more responsibility to our CSR. There is no question that the program cost money, but in my opinion it is less expensive than acquiring a practice (I have acquired three). In my projections, I also think that the real financial benefits (profit margin) are not necessarily in year 1, but rather year 2 and beyond. Although don't get me wrong, we did begin to break even after 5 months and throughout the year have paid back the start-up money that we originally borrowed. Full disclosure - while I do not work for NCI, I am currently the Instructor of the Advanced Processing Seminar. That being said, do not confuse that with the fact that we did see very positive results from the program. I will he happy to speak with anyone about our experience via telephone or email. Happy New Year!

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
I don't want to let this go just yet; since marketing, especially as a tax pro, is fairly high on my list of interests, I looked into the comments on Tax Almanac. I didn't search exhaustively, but I did search. While I don't want to be contentious, what I found was one positive poster re: Frank Salman (?Bbower? who posted multiple times). Therefore, Frank Salman has received the same number of positive commenters as NCI on these forums by my count. I'll look into how many positive posters have spoken well of build a firm after I do a little searching here. Or did I miss some other posters speaking well of Salman? I have - to me - good reasons backed up by a couple of decades of experience why there are near-universal negative comments about ANY M-A-R-K-E-T-I-N-G program evaluated by technicians (accountants, engineers, computer-types, doctors, etc), but that's for another time. Did I miss a whole slew of positive posters about Frank Salman?

TRcpa (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
Fletch,

RickCPA1 had some additional comments on Frank (doubt he would keep doing the program 3 out of 5 years if he was not pleased). I commented as well, at the time I didn't use Frank's entire program but since have and I'm satisfied.

http://taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Cold_calling http://taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:ValPak_Advertising http://taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Questions_on_different_Marketing_Plans http://taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Frank_Salman_or_Dan_Kennedy

All that said, its only natural that people will complain much louder then they praise.

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
will check out links, thx

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
Anarchrist,

Why aren't there more positive comments on this site or others about NCI? First, most of my successful clients are too busy to spend time posting on message boards. Second, as stated above, people complain more loudly and vehemently than they praise. You cite this message board and one other, both with probably a handful of negative comments about my company. I suggest you look beyond these two message boards and at the larger picture. If you want to talk to happy clients I have literally hundreds of references you can call up and talk to about their experiences with NCI, just call my office and request them. Some of them are recent and some go back over the past 25 years. Some of them have added $50,000 in new business while others have built multi-million dollar practices using our programs.

I suggest you go to my website at www.newclientsinc.com and watch some of the client testimonial videos there. These are my clients in their own words. If that doesn't convince you what we do works, nothing will.

One final point, I'll put my track record in this busines up against any of my competitors. No one has created more success, more annualized billings and more satisfied and successful clients than NCI.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

30 December 2010
Why aren't there more positive comments on this site or others about NCI? First, most of my successful clients are too busy to spend time posting on message boards.


Wow, just gotta say, that is pretty condescending. Pretty damn condescending I would say.

I am sure many of your clients achieve what you say. What I would like to see is the true percentage of those that succeed. How many of the $5,000 investments actually made money?

How many clients sign up, vs how many clients achieve positive results.

If my marketing program generates 1000 clients willing to pay the $5,000 fee and 10 of them achieve positive results, then I am sure those 10 are willing to give you a testimonial.

Then, the question to ask is "would those 10 have achieved the same results with a marketing focused approach similar to the items Fletch describes in his posts.

I would imagine that Fletch <it is you with all the good marketing tips right?> could take one of those and point out a gameplan to follow and they would achieve similar results.

My next statement is spewing forth a comment completely off of belief and not what may or may not actually be. But, when these discussions are had with potential clients who wish to be a part of the NCI client list, are they discussions on the great extent of work that is involved on our part. Is it clear to us as possible participants that our success is based on the work we perform in addition to what you can provide?

I think that the sales pitch and the marketing ploys put forth an image <or they attempt to> that if you pay us $5,000 we will refer said number of clients to you that are really really really good clients. Doesn't sound like much work on our part, just call the referral up, sell our good prospects and off to the bank we go.

I had an associate who had the opportunity to participate with your firm or a like minded marketing firm. Promised him an immediate client <that's usually the case isn't it> referral that could be worth up to $15,000 annually. He bit and asked me to assist him in the proposal and the actual management of the client.

The referral was a non-profit audit of a local colleges endowment fund that he could have gotten from prospecting on his own. Sure, they went out to bid, but these types of clients usually have their auditor pre-selected. We were actually the lowest bid, but because we were a smaller firm, they wanted a larger firm for the prestige. I know, me not prestige, wtf?

Point is, he got nothing he could have gotten on his own.

Bruce, I tell you what, you hook me up with your program as a pay after the fact situation. I'll pay commission of 20% a year for 5 years <of monies collected> for every client that you send/refer to me. If you are that good, then that is some of the easiest money you will ever make.

I doubt you'll take that offer though.

In my most humble opinion, marketers such as you are snake oil salesman that rely on the philosophy of door knocking. If you knock on enough doors, then someone will answer.

Same philosophy works on women btw, if you ask enough of them to do things, some of them will.

Now, with all of the above being said, I am open minded enough to allow you to change my thought process. Send me the clients.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
"my successful clients are too busy to spend time posting on message boards"

More likely, they are large firms. Small firms, which you probably have next to zero success with, use internet bulletin boards. Large firms don't.


"people complain more loudly and vehemently than they praise"

Bull! You seem ignorant of how these bulletin boards & groups work. When a poster asks for opinions on a product or service, they get responses. Those responses cover the whole range of opinions. I see just as many, if not more positive responses than I do negative (except when NCI and other similar services are being discussed).


"You cite this message board and one other, both with probably a handful of negative comments about my company. I suggest you look beyond these two message boards and at the larger picture. If you want to talk to happy clients I have literally hundreds of references you can call up and talk to about their experiences with NCI"

No, I cited every board & group I use - at least 3 bulletin boards and 3 email groups, all very active with lots of participants. Participants who regularly give positive reviews to other products and services. So I'll ask again, why does the positive feedback have to come directly from you? Why is it that the positive feedback rarely shows up on these bulletin boards? Look at the larger picture, Bruce, instead of just your hand picked testimonials.


"No one has created more success, more annualized billings and more satisfied and successful clients than NCI."

Probably true, but not relevant. Being in business two or three times longer than your competitors easily accounts for that claim. Have you created less unsatisfied clients than your competitors?

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
Bruce, why does NCI's facebook page only have 17 fans?

JackTraffic (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
I've used Frank Salman's service... and I thought it was well worth the fee I paid ($2500?).

Basically, you get a 2+ hour video where Frank talks about how to build an accounting practice very efficiently using telemarketing, direct mail and newspaper advertising... you get a 3-ring binder with some reusable marketing materials (e.g., actual ads, telephone scripts, etc)... Frank's very realistic (IMHO) assessment of the conversion rates you'll experience ... and then you also get basically as much personal, one-on-one coaching (via the telephone) from Frank as you want/need.

What Frank did for me that was really high value, btw, was do a "physical" on my practice, telling me where (relative to peers) I was strong and where I was weak. Essentially, I paid (maybe) $1000 an hour for some of the best consulting help I could ever hope to receive. Full disclosure: I did not actually use any of frank's specific marketing materials. But I have spent tens of thousands of dollars on marketing over the last ten years to build a very profitable boutique tax practice. And my real-life results make me pretty confident of Frank's notions. (Running very similar direct marketing programs, e.g., I've experienced conversion rates that mirror his... )

Note: Frank's claim to fame is that he's built and sold several CPA practices (maybe 3?)... and then coached hundreds of small firms (maybe mostly solo practitioners) about how to grow. As you might guess, those experiences as well as the coaching info he's been given access to give him a certain, er, perspective. I totally understand that not everybody can drop $2K-$3K on coaching. But for some people it's a great deal.

Caution: Frank's approach (probably like NCI's?) includes doing write-up work for small business and lots of 1040 returns. That's not really our niche. And if it isn't yours, either, his program might not be a good fit.

Jack,

P.S. Er, there are some people here that I'm sure would also be worth $1000 an hour for practice coaching... DZCPA?

TRcpa (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
Agreed Jack. I think between signing up with Frank (who deals primarily with telemarketing), and Build Your Firm's one day seminar (mostly Direct Mail and Internet Marketing) you'll learn what you need to implement a successful marketing system. They will go over pricing, techniques, materials, etc. It will cost you a few grand combined for both programs, but worth it in my opinion. Build your firm offers a guaranteed program where they do most of the work, but they will only take on a limited amount of clients in a geographical area (basically they don't want to be competing with themselves).

That said you will need to be dedicated to spending time, effort, and money in order to make it successful......if not your undermining your marketing efforts with no one to blame but yourself.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
That said you will need to be dedicated to spending time, effort, and money in order to make it successful......if not your undermining your marketing efforts with no one to blame but yourself.

The above is the key. You must be willing to put in the work or the program will not work.

This is with any marketing strategy. Now, if someone is willing to put in the work and the energy to succeed via a strong marketing plan, one would assume that the same said individual has the ability and the gumption <yes, I said gumption> to read marketing books and to attend seminars and then transfer that knowledge into action.

Many small accounting shops are not going to do this. We rely on slow growth via "traditional" marketing and word of mouth advertising. We are busy enough keeping up with the work we have, and are too cheap to put forth the money necessary to grow our practices to one that requires multiple staff people to succeed.

This is the same issue that faces many of our small business clients that don't take our advice. Their is that moment where you can either maintain the status quo or you can hire someone, take a small temporary hit, and then grow your business. No difference within our own practices.

I prefer to hire additional staff than to kill myself working an extra 4 hours a day. Less money in the short run, but it allows me to take on additional clients.

Do I participate in a steady, planned marketing plan? No. Should I? Yes.

Would NCI's or other plans similar work, absolutely. The problem I have is that the few times I've been giving their sales pitch is that is exactly what it is, a pitch. There is only the prospect of unlimited client referrals with no talk or the reality of it.

I've been called about the referral program for $2,500 and $5,000 and I've talked about the friend who tried it. Those are absolutely ridiculous.

Now, their level 3 plan sounds all inclusive with a "guarantee" of $300,000 growth in annual revenue within 24 months. Problem with that is the upfront cost. Not viable for small businesses. Our own client rep to do the marketing. Hmmmm, on our payroll of course. Again, this might be a good deal for a larger firm who doesn't want to do all the training themselves. I view it in the same vein as outsourcing. I advertise outsourcing of business accounting and admin functions. Good deal, as it allows small businesses to focus. Tough sell at times too.

Curious Bruce, and I do believe your firms business model can work well for a larger well established accounting firm that has the capital to put together a $50 to $75,000 per year marketing plan that will bring in $300,000 per year of business. Seriously, I'd pay that. But, am I going to risk it. Not right now. Yeah, your plan is guaranteed, but not for the salary of the client rep I need to hire.

As I said before, talk to me, I am willing to work with the program. I am near a semi-metropolitan area in NY with good growth potential. I have access to an established business office for a relatively low rate. What I am not willing to do is put forth the cash. If it's successful, I am happy to pay you a commission on each new client and to reimburse you for the cost of staff.

If the program is that good, show me. We can gear it up right after tax season. I'll work with you to minimize the risk of your cash outflow. If it is that good and it works, make me a trial program and I'll even help you sell that model to others after the fact.

Add an @aol.com to my name and start a productive conversation.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
I believe it's been mentioned a few times that the only positive results with NCI's programs have been with the expensive top of the line programs and the lower end programs sucked.

If NCI was the marketing genius that it claims, they would have better guarantees. Good marketers with good products offer money back guarantees and the really good offer a free trial and pay after you use it. Instead of a great marketing plan answering prospects objections, NCI uses an aggressive sales pitch. That isn't a good sign.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

31 December 2010
The best marketing is try to own your own building and put up a big sign.

I am putting my 2010 plan out for free right now.

Work out a deal with a local limosine service to park his limos in your parking lot one day a week during tax season. If you have enough room, let them park there 5 days/week.

In other words, the limos wait in your lot between their customers.

When it's time for a limo to pull out on a job, have a flunky dressed up in a bellhop type uniform run into the street to stop traffic and let the limos out. Make a big show of it.

You don't necessarily have to have the flunky, but it's a nice touch.

Frankly, just the limos pulling in and out of your place is worth gold. The windows are blacked out in most of the limos and the public driving by assumes they have passengers.

But you must have a big sign (as big as the law allows) so the public knows who you are.

.** If you want to spend a little more money, hire some actors, dress them up as paparazzi and have them jostle themselves taking pictures of your departing "clients". Try to spring for some real flashbulbs. (Actors means anybody who is unemployed in your area).

Besides just advertising you do taxes on your sign, make sure to put on there that you are a "Wealth Creator".

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

2 January 2011
I believe it's been mentioned a few times that the only positive results with NCI's programs have been with the expensive top of the line programs and the lower end programs sucked.

I haven't read that, but I tend to believe it. Execution is the difference when using two comparably adequate mktg plans. Then the self-assesing person (i.e. the one who's at fault) who executes poorly never assigns himself the blame. Therefore, its THE OTHER GUY'S fault. Then they say things like "It didn't work."...or..."They are charlatans" etc. on discussion boards. Technicians are the first to ascribe mktg as something anyone can do. Unlike what WE, as technicians, do....you know, the difficult stuff. That easy mktg stuff can be done by pretty much anyone.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

10 January 2011
Fsteincpa, my firm does not have a fee of $5000 nor are we a referral service. We do offer a three day seminar that costs $2,695 and comes with a one day money back guarantee. You can sit in for the first day and if we haven’t convinced you that the program will help you grow we refund your deposit plus pay you up to $200 towards your transportation cost to go home. We’re confident that if you spend that day with us and meet our seminar instructor you will see the value that we provide. If you feel you can do any or all of what we will show you then by all means do it. Why pay me if you already have a good marketing plan in place and it’s working for you?

You can pay as you go for a portion of the fee of some of our programs. During the tax season we are offering financing for select start dates. We will not let you pay solely based on results. You have to have some skin in the game for the program to succeed. Do you file tax returns or do write up work and get paid based on the outcome? We do however have a guarantee and if you follow it we honor it. I have a list of accountants we’ve refunded money to under our Plan 2 and Plan 3 programs. It’s available to anyone who wishes to see it. Ask my competitors for the same list and see if they back up what they say.

Anarchrist, you seem to want to believe what you want to believe. Fine, my posts on this site are not to convince you of anything. I'm posting to provide a fair and balanced look at what NCI does and our record of success to others that are reading this thread. Here are some facts for the readers to consider. Frank Salman has been in business for about 18 years, he is not new to this business. Frank’s home study program costs $2,500, NCI’s home study program costs less than half that at $1,295. Order his and order mine and if you decide to keep his return mine and we will refund your payment. When you compare the products side by side you will not be sending mine back! I am familiar with Frank’s program and have reviewed his home study materials.

The NCI program is not designed for large firms and they make up hardly any of my client base. About 25% of my clients are startups with no clients. The other 75% have small practices; approximately grossing anywhere from $50,000 to $300,000 in business. NCI has many, many accountants that have attended our Practice Development Seminar, which is not one of our top tier programs, and they have achieved great results. Again all you have to do is call my office at 800-338-0778 or go to my website for a list.

Build Your Firm has been in business for about 7 years. The owner of BYF, Alan Ratavia, is a former client of mine. Alan and his wife Margo attended our Plan 1 Practice Development Seminar back in 1993. Alan returned to his market in West Chester, New York and went about building his firm (no pun intended) to $700,000 with the NCI program. His program now relies mostly on direct mail and SEO results. This is what he preaches in his one day seminar. We agree with SEO as a part of a holistic approach to practice development. We disagree with direct mail, it usually generates a poor return on investment.

Lastly, I received an email from one of my clients telling me he had posted some comments on this site. I do not see them here so maybe he did something wrong. I have taken the liberty to copy and paste his exact email in the next post.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

10 January 2011
Here is the email I mentioned in my last post:

My name is Arun Sareen and I go by my own name. I am a CPA in Virginia, Maryland and Florida. I've run my own firm since 1993 when I started with zero customers and a Plan 2 program from a marketing training company called NCI or New Clients Inc. Thanks to their systematized and well thought out training, I have grown my operation to 7 locations (6 in the United States and one in India.) Their system was great for bringing the clients/customers in initially. I just was not set up to handle 1 new client a week which made my practice a revolving door with lots of clients coming in and lots leaving. It did give me the momentum and the cash flow to hire proper accountants. Back then momentum was important. Now we are a lot pickier. I don't accept just any client. If the client is not focused on growth or turning around their business I don't want them. I still use the NCI marketing materials and I use telemarketers to continue to grow. Besides the three full time marketing reps I currently employ I also personally go on a lot of appointments and select almost all new clients the firm accepts. Besides what my marketing reps signed, and what we got from referrals, I personally went on some of the telemarketing appointments and seven of the clients I signed up in 2010 using this system gave me new revenues of over $300,000.

My new year advice to fellow practitioners who are failing to grow in spite of tried and tested systems like NCI is 1. You reap what you sow...if you go after midsize clients, you will get those. 2. A good golf set doesn’t make you a good golfer...practice and a good coach are key. Same thing with practice development: get a good coach and good techniques. NCI was my coach and gave me the system...but even 17.5 years later I still use them as a sounding board and send my new marketing reps to be trained by them. If you are unable to achieve success, don’t change your goals, change the steps you are taking and increase the practice. If you'd like to leave me a message, just select the discussion tab at the top of this page. Thank you End of Email


Arun told me that anyone who wishes to reach him can do so by emailing him at aksareen@hotmail.com.

Today Arun’s practice is grossing over $4.5 Million dollars per year. I have many other clients that have built multi million dollar firms. Just call or email and I will send you a list of them. Thanks and here’s wishing everyone a prosperous and healthy New Year.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

10 January 2011
Bruce, thanks for finally, after many months, providing a few small details of your operation.

Contrary to your ridiculous claim, I believe based upon the evidence provided. What I want to believe is not relevant.

Evidence such as your refusal to answer the numerous questions that you've been asked says a lot. You are the one basing beliefs on your own statements and ignoring evidence. Additional evidence such as this action of yours says a lot:

FYI to those interested in NCI: Yesterday, a new user named Brucej used the "edit this page" tab at the top of this page to remove the first three posts of this discussion (Kokomo, Fred, Jonathan). After that edit, Cpa925's post appeared to be the first post in the discussion. Brucej's edit was a clear violation of the TaxAlmanac Code of Conduct, and his edit was reverted''

Obviously you aren't as interested as you claim in "a fair and balanced look at what NCI does".

Why should we believe your unsupported self serving statements after such unscrupulous behavior? Unfortunately you don't answer questions so we'll probably never know.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

12 January 2011
And you'll continue to believe what you want which will keep you stuck where you are.This will be my last post unless I find other information that is untrue or distorted.

Fletch (talk|edits) said:

12 January 2011
So who among the NCI critics here are going to email Mr. Arun Sareen at aksareen@hotmail.com and get your questions answered/doubts confirmed? How about an adversarial report of that conversation, letting the chips fall where they may? Are these testimonials false? Are they edited as to be misleading? Are they accurate? What salient info, if any, was left out? Or is NCI what they claim to be?

CPA25 (talk|edits) said:

29 May 2012
Has anyone heard any recent news on this topic? I have used NCI and had awful results.

CPA25 (talk|edits) said:

29 May 2012
Has anyone heard any recent news on this topic? I have used NCI and had awful results.

Eduardo (talk|edits) said:

31 May 2012
It needs to be reiterated that the NCI program isn't what it's cracked up to be. You get clients out of it, but most are low-quality, and are out of business soon. In addtion, the program is expensive with payroll costs, lists, etc. I stopped the program after about a year and a half when my CSR quit, and my business got much better after that, with better quality clients and much less in expenses.

There are better ways to grow your business, and you will get better quality clients in return. Most clients we got from the NCI program were total crap.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

8 June 2012
To Eduardo and CPA 25,how do I know you are not an NCI competitor trying to make us look bad?Not knowing who you are or what program you worked with or when it's diffcult to respond to your complaint. I do not like having any client,assuming your are one,feeling this way about my company.I would like to extend the following offer to you in a sincere effort to change how you feel about my firm.NCI will send all of our recently updated training material to you at no charge.I will also offer my direct support to help you improve your results by consulting with you via phone on our toll free line to see where we can make improvements in your marketing and sales effort.

If you are a Plan 2 or Plan 3 client my offer is to send at my expense one of NCI's Senior Account Executives for one week onsite at your office.They will assist you in hiring a salesperson and appointment setters or if you already have a salesperson we can provide adittional sales training over the course of that week.If you prefer they will provide sales training to you,your choice.My goal is simple, to work with you to improve your results and in the process your opinion of NCI.You can take me up on my offer by calling me at 800-338-0778 ext. 11.

Bruce Clark

CEO

Dean51267 (talk|edits) said:

11 June 2012
I have used the NCI program, and lightly coached about 20 different CPA's who were starting the program, and have talked to dozens before they decided to, or not, to use the NCI program.

NCI is not about "getting clients" although that is a major ingredient. NCI is about BUILDING A BUSINESS.

Are you focused on your income statement, or your balance sheet? There are two different approaches to your career. As accounting professionals we should understand that, sadly some do not. I find those who fail are generally the folks who are focused on the "income statement" instead of the balance sheet. (I did the coaching of others for free, trying to help others, and I am not an "NCI guy", just a client with a decade of experience with NCI who was trying to help my peers).

Think things through, a client that pays you some $4000/year is increasing your BALANCE SHEET by $4000 to $5000. Far too many folks I have talked to want that to come easily. They want someone else to do all the work; they do not pour themselves into the process and building of their firm. NCI can do the ground work, pick the team, train the team, etc, etc, etc, but they cannot play the game. That is the business owners job, and there is no second string players in this game, no one waiting on the bench to pick up when you get tired. It is the owner and the owner who must play the game of business.

It is impossible for the NCI system not to produce success, if you work the system. It is built on the most basic premise that some % of the market is looking for a new provider at any given moment. If you reach enough of those, and PERFORM, you are successful, if not, you are not. Sure, there can be variances in what percentage is looking for new providers in YOUR market, but some percentage is always looking. Some of those looking are not profitable clients; you have to know how to evaluate that. Salespeople and tele-marketers often are not long term employees, once they turn south you have to know when to fire them. You have to know how to manage people, systems, and you have to get the work done.

If you decide to get off the reservation and "prove your independence" and "do it differently", hey, its a free country, just accept the consequences, good or bad, for your decision.

To many people want to buy an expensive piece of equipment, and then when they fail to run the equipment as instructed, want to blame the equipment manufacturer. That is what I generally see when people fail to be successful with NCI, and I have seen a few. We have all seen clients do this, what would make our profession immune from the same?

It is so simple it is almost insulting to say "you contact up to 1,000 businesses a week and ask if they want help". But that is the system. From there, some percentage do, most will not. From there you go see the ones who say they want help. Some will keep the appointment, some will not. From there some who keep the appointment see the value in what we do, some will not. Of those who see value, some have a shot at being successful as clients, some do not. If you are not getting the numbers you need, change the number you call, who you call, who is making the calls, etc, etc, etc. You cannot cheat or fail at this if you will work it. It is a numbers game, good or bad, your numbers will be very comparable to mine, and anyone else's. It is just that simple. But simple does not mean easy, far too many forget that.

Does NCI get the "perfect" sales person every time? Of course not, every market is different. Do they get perfect tele-marketers every time? Of course not, same reasons. But the reality is you do not need PERFECT. You need PRODUCTION. Someone actually has to DO THE WORK.

The last 3 guys I talked to who failed using NCI's program had been paid lots of money, but had not done the work. One even tried to sell me a firm that had been paid $125K for work not done, I told him if he paid me $62,500 I would take it, get the work done, and keep him from being sued. Over and again I hear the same story. His story sounded like a lot of what I hear on this discussion board. He thinks NCI screwed him, and he is just another loud mouth, disgruntled ex-NCI client.

Does NCI have weakness? Sure, I am no paid spokesman so I can be honest about that. The culture creates a very positive emotional experience based upon projected revenues and earnings. I hear guys who are giddy with excitement about how easy it is going to be. Well, I got news.... it isn’t going to be easy.

I think it would help if NCI had a "come to Jesus" meeting with new clients about how HARD the work is. The cash flow projections are a little aggressive. If you pick up $200K (less than one average client a week) in revenue in year one, you are going to see negative cash flow getting that work done. You also added $200K to $250K to your personal balance sheet. Far too many folks think that should come "easy", we should all know better. Do that 5 years in a row and you are a millionaire. That is what I did. Started with a net worth in the five figure range, now it is well in the seven figure range.

Bruce has been fair with me, and I believe I have been fair with him. My programs hit snags, glitches, problems, and all that jazz. I am in a rural area, I don't have enough names to call, so that was a MAJOR problem I never saw coming. But NCI worked with me and we got through it. There were very difficult discussions, but they were not focused on laying blame, they were focused on getting results. At the end of the day, how else could NCI profit?

But I know there are the typical folks out there who are going to fail, no matter what, they are going to fail, and blame someone else for it. It is easy to blame NCI for failure, looking in the mirror and saying "this is all my own fault" is the hardest thing a person can do, and very few will do it. Admitting you simply did not work hard enough is something only 1 in 10,000 will admit to.

Does NCI's system work? Not by itself. If that is what you are looking for go to work for someone who will work that hard. You will have a better life and your kids will have a better foundation. I do not mean that lightly I mean it in all seriousness. Think trough using their system very carefully, your children will see you succeed after a lot of hard work, or they will see you fail and blame someone else. What are you teaching them? What are you setting yourself up for? Is your life such that you can work 60 hours a week for a couple of year before backing off? Can you really manage people? Do you understand being a business owner means being a business owner just became your primary profession, and accounting/tax just became your secondary profession, but you must do both VERY well. If you do not want to go through that STAY AWAY FROM NCI! If you do want that, and will devote what is necessary, then it is to be considered, and one very good option.

NCI has no magic bullet. They have no easy button. Those things only exist in our si-fi enhanced imagination and Office Depot commercials. Those who fail, stopped trying. I failed a couple times using their system, but I kept remembering that the only guy who fails is the guy who stops getting up.

Given the changing landscape of the profession, with CPA firms going out of business from age or new regulations, it is an AMAZING opportunity for those who will actually talk with a large number of business owners about their tax and accounting needs. But unlike the conventional saying, in this scenario, talk is NOT cheap, it comes with bug work requirements, and big rewards FOR THOSE WHO DO THINGS RIGHT.

Sadly, talk is easy, and work is not. So if you are not ready to roll up your selves, work your butt off, follow a plan, run away from NCI as fast as you can and avoid being the example your kids see of how to blame someone else for your failure. There will always be someone to blame for something, just save the money and blame someone else for your failings. But if you are ready, able, willing, and WANT to build a strong, successful firm, NCI is an option to consider carefully.

Dean Owen, CPA, MST, PFS 270-554-0720 www.owencpa.com

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

11 June 2012
Dean, That is probably the crux of the problem right there. It is the lack of the "come to jesus" meeting. They pitch it and sell it as it's promoted.

They, and others start you off with a fishline dangling in the water.

Is it all their fault, no, because accountants should be smart enough to look into the program. I enjoy growth and I understand the analysis of hire an employee to expand and the lower revenue stream you realize at first. Many struggle with this and many don't have the money necessary in the beginning. You need to spend money to make money.

Their programs may be rational and all well and good, again, it is the sales pitch they use.

Throw in there in big print saying that you, as the owner will have to work hard to make this work, but it will and my attitude would be changed.

Dlhohcpa (talk|edits) said:

11 June 2012
Whoa, a lot of NCI bashing going on. For the people that the program did do "as advertised", did you allow it to operate as it should. I am using the program now, since February 2012, and have acquired 33 new clients with annual billing in excess of $60,000. I allow the CSR to run the program, including the appointment setters, and it has done better the expected. Get a good team and stay out of it on a daily basis. This is the third time I have been associated with the program, all have worked, but this has been far and away the best. Adding a work load to my practice, but it is a good problem. Good luck to anyone using the program.

Dlhohcpa (talk|edits) said:

11 June 2012
Whoa, a lot of NCI bashing going on. For the people that the program did do "as advertised", did you allow it to operate as it should. I am using the program now, since February 2012, and have acquired 33 new clients with annual billing in excess of $60,000. I allow the CSR to run the program, including the appointment setters, and it has done better the expected. Get a good team and stay out of it on a daily basis. This is the third time I have been associated with the program, all have worked, but this has been far and away the best. Adding a work load to my practice, but it is a good problem. Good luck to anyone using the program.

Dean51267 (talk|edits) said:

11 June 2012
Fsteincpa- Fred - I think it is the failed ex-NCI clients who had blinders on most often. I have been using their services on and off for 10 years now, and in each interaction the representatives discuss this is hard. The first time the NCI representative suggested I set my expectations at $300K max because I am in such a rural area. THAT was a bitter pill to swallow.

I exceeded that by material margins in 24 months, up from about $50K year in revenue. I remember well when I earned $1000/week in gross revenue thinking that was great success.

Many people want to believe how hard they are willing to work. But as an employer you know EVERYONE says they work hard, are dedicated, etc, etc, etc. Let's get real, 50% of the population of accountants work less than average, work below average in intensity, have below average capability of those in the profession, etc, etc, etc. You and I know in this profession, as in any other, those who are truly willing to "do what it takes" are rare. The world forces that situation through competition.

I do not know how much more NCI could do to stop those who are unlikely to succeed from buying in. They are a business, just like you and I they offer services, someone calls and says "hey, I want to do this, here is my payment", what could anyone expect them to do? What would you do in your practice? Ever retained the client you wish you had not? I have.

Yes, they have "teaser" programs to let someone come in on the cheap, not a bad way to introduce your company to the public, and serve those who are not ready for a larger commitment. The "teaser" programs still provide far more value than they cost. That is about a fair practice as I know of.

I mean gesh, they offer a one day free deal, money back guarantee, reimbursement of some travel cost if you decide to take the money back guarantee, etc, etc, etc. I think they are crazy for doing that, but it is their model not mine, I don't have to understand it, I just assume it makes sense for them. But come on, I musta missed the last news report of NCI representatives beating people into submission and forcing them to sign on. Must be just another giant conspiracy that the news is covering up.

I an also in the investment world, as well as SEVERAL peer to peer groups. I see non-producers from all walks all the time with very loud complaints about how someone else is responsible for their lack of success. That is what I think most of the NCI bashing is. As well as a few of their competitors (some of who I have been associated with) target the non-producing, ex-NCI client that failed and stroke how "NCI was so mean to you, they did not have a easy button to make you rich, they are so dishonest, come over here, give me some money and I will make you rich". And yes, I have see outfits do just that. In two or three years their clients will be accusing those outfits of doing the same.

Others see NCI's success and go "ah ha, I can get me some of that" and immediately start competing with them. Everyone thinks everyone else is making money the easy way and wants a cut of that.

One of their loud detractors came to my little bitty, red neck town and tried to compete directly with me, he failed in less than 18 months. He did things horribly wrong, things I KNOW were well discussed in every NCI training program. But if you listen to him, it was all Bruce's fault he could not process work. He is the one I would I would take $62,500 and is firm and get the work done. Kinda hard to believe he got paid $125K to do work he never did, and its the fault of the guy who showed him how to get the clients to trust him's fault. Yep, true story.

A few weeks ago I discussed the program with a guy with a stay at home wife, two young kids, no money, etc, etc, etc. He wanted to know if he could replace his $100K corporate income in the next year using this system cause he just got laid off. I told him to stay on unemployment. Yep, another true story. NCI probably does not like me saying that, but it is real. He had not discussed this with NCI yet, but was rip roaring and ready to go buy off on a very big purchase on his credit card.

We live in a society where no one wants to take any personal responsibility, 50% pay for the other 50%, and the non-paying half truly, in their heart, believe someone owes them something and no one will ever give them enough. When they do not get it they try and recall a WI Governor, elect a food stamp president, beg for more government hand outs, think government health care will be lower cost, and some scream bloody murder that the last guy to try and help them is at fault. It is the world we live in, and a full 50% fit that category.

And if they are in this profession, the last guy to try and help them is the most crooked guy on earth because he did not push the easy button for them.

I know my comments sound harsh, try coaching some in that bottom 50% for a while, it makes you kinda jaded. Knowing I made it work in a near impossible situation (demographics) causes me to see a world of personality traits in someone has to get on a message board and bash someone I know routinely delivers success, and when glitches come up, does their part to fix them. It is disheartening, but then, the welfare state usually is.

All that said, MOST ALL service providers in this market provide value, if you work their system. NCI has a small, medium, and whopper service offering. That "Build Your Firm" out fit has helped a couple buddies of mine generate a little money, even the direct mail people have a program. It is all about ROI and can you work the system. I think NCI's provides the best ROI over all, for those who will WORK IT. And for those who will not, well, everyone they depend on for a system will get bashed in time.

Negreview (talk|edits) said:

23 July 2012

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

23 July 2012
Once again we have a coward that posts a negitive review and hides behind an anonyomus name thereby denying NCI the right to answer his allegations.In the American justice system we are guaranteed the right to face our accusers in a court of law.Only on the internet can such unsubstantiated garbage be spewed.So Mr/Mrs Negreview either tell us who you are so I can state my side of the story or clam up.

Bruce Clark

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

24 July 2012
When they do not get it they try and recall a WI Governor,

That was one bright spot in the last few years. It's too bad he got re-elected.

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

24 July 2012
NegRev, did you read this whole thread? If so, you'd see there are plenty of dissatisfied clients. You'd also see the dishonest behavior of NCI's CEO Bruce Clark.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

24 July 2012
Rut roh, let's get this party started.

ScottScpa (talk|edits) said:

24 July 2012
I agree with Bruce NegRev - Please identify yourself or please remove this post as Bruce is accusing me of being responsible for your comments and he has been working with me to resolve our differences.

Scott Sander

Anarchrist (talk|edits) said:

24 July 2012
"Please identify yourself or please remove this post" says the anonymous poster.


"Bruce is accusing me of being responsible for your comments" Bruce's false accusations against you should tell you something about the guy.

Gazoo (talk|edits) said:

25 July 2012
BruceJ: NCI uses arbitration because it is the least expensive process for both parties to resolve any differences that cannot be addressed otherwise. In the 24 years I have been in busines we have worked with over 4,000 firms throughout the country. We also have a few clients in Canada, Autralia and England as well.

vs.

BruceJ: Once again we have a coward that posts a negitive review and hides behind an anonyomus name thereby denying NCI the right to answer his allegations.In the American justice system we are guaranteed the right to face our accusers in a court of law.

BruceJ: If there are that many unhappy NCI clients that feel my company has not fullfilled our professional and contractual obligations to them then by all means get together and file that suit


There appears to be an inconsistency here.


I think some of Crow's comments about arbitration clauses in general are beginning to make sense. Always question an assumption. IF people want to arbitrate let them make that decision after a dispute arises. I would never agree on a pre-dispute basis to waive my potential right to bring the other party into my local court unless I got a substantial concession in return. Never. Mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clauses BAD, particularly for the relatively weaker party, IMO.

1) Never give up a right without a concession. 2) Never assume that something is less expensive, look into it carefully. Arbitration is not mediation.

My comments are of a general nature.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

24 February 2013
I am the newest victim of NCI's plan II program. I paid a large sum of upfront fee to get into the program, and did everythign i could such as double the appointment setters (i had 4 appointment setters at one point) but the result is very disappointing. I am only about 4 month into the program, and I have decided the program is false adervisting overall. to be honest, there is some value to the program, which is worth about $3,000 not the $30k they ask. if you want to get a refund from them, it is harder than anything in this world. dont believe the two year guarantee! once you start the program, the additional operating expense is more than $10k/month so if it does not work, you will not be able to hold on to 2 years. I tied to ask a refund, the company told me that they will not give me a penny back! Even they did not do anything!


Not sure if the program works in other part of the country, but if you are in Tri-state area (NY, NJ and CT), it would be very hard to have it work.

Think very carefully if you want to join the program, or sign the contract, there are many CPA marketing program out there, they are honest, helpful and reasonable.

P.S. as usual, I am waiting the standard reply from the company " we are a good company has 27 years experience blah blah" to respond to my post.

P.P.S if anyone considering joining the program, feel free to reach out to me, and i will give you my first hand information about the program, what the company did overall, I will be very fair and tell you all the pros and cons. or email me, good luck!

P.P.P.S - the fact of their contract - based on the contract, you are responsible to pay $34K (they will reduce some to get you on the hook), and they are not obligated for anything. My attorney reviewed the contract and he feels very sorry for me...

[Contact info is on Joe's user page - click his user name above, etc.]

Trillium (talk|edits) said:

24 February 2013
It should be noted that Joe had also posted about his situation a couple of weeks ago, on the other NCI discussion (Discussion:Anyone else been screwed by NCI?), and had received a few suggestions from others.

Todd10924 (talk|edits) said:

1 March 2013
The low productivity is an inherent risk factor in launching any marketing campaign with new personnel. The contract signed with this client clearly states this. The sales rep was let go and replaced within 30 days from inception of program due to lack of acceptable performance. It should be noted that during the first week of operations Super storm Hurricane Sandy hit the area extremely hard to the point that many businesses were unable to operate at full strength for months. This clearly had an impact on productivity. What is most puzzling is the fact that NCI offered to train at no additional cost a new sales rep and owner DECLINED. Contrary to what client wrote in her post she also failed to maintain the proper number of outbound calling hours a critical aspect for success. Anyone who has ever hired personnel realizes that sometimes they simply don’t work out. Hiring is not an exact science. You move on and bring in somebody new. Owner was unwilling to let us fulfill our obligations as part of our two year agreement. There was extensive support from New Clients Inc to this client’s organization via face to face training, phone consultation, online sales coaching webinars and email communications. We keep detailed records of all phone calls and emails outlining client communication. NCI provided all support to help keep the program on track. The client gave up on the process after only 12 weeks of effort and demanded a full refund.

NCI has provided our marketing services to thousands of CPA's and accountants nationwide over the past 27 years. We are proud of our reputation and have assisted thousands of accountants to build large successful accounting and tax practices. In response to clients statement that “but if you are in Tri-state area (NY, NJ and CT), it would be very hard to have it work” this is simply not true. Here is a list of several Tri-State area NCI clients with contact information:

John Rudisill, CPA – Galloway, NJ - 609-652-1040 Dan Vigilante, CPA – Morris Plains, NJ - 973-605-1212 Liren Wei, CPA – Flushing, NY -718-445-6308 Meir Speir, CPA – Brooklyn, NY - 917-873-6503

Please visit our web site at www.newclientsinc.com and view our video testimonials or call us at 800-338-0778 for an ample list of references who have achieved tremendous success.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

2 March 2013
There is a list of successful referrals, but there are a lot more CPA/CPA firms killed the program due to lack of success in tri-state asrea (NY, NJ and CT). There is no program guarantee 100% of success, however, if a Company does the marketing, hard sell in the beginning, collect all fee upfront, what is the reason? because they are afraid of the program will not work and will not be able to collect their fee (which is unreasonable), based on the research and all of the previous posts, this program does not work for our firm. Can NCI please tell us what is the success rate? 10%? 20% in tri-state? it is the firm's trick to offer sending reps to train for a week, after I complainted that the program does not work and requested the refund, that way, there is no way to recover any cost anymore (a week on site from their reps they will charge at least $5K), i have been keeping the app setter more than 3 most of the time, in the beginning got 2 appoint setter, no results, then increase to 3, no results, then i increase to 4 still no results. the low number of outbound calls is the information/execuse from the first CSR who is fired after one month with the firm, also note this CSR is refer to NCI to me as a "super star" performer.

Again, today I received a call from the owner of NCI, screaming and yelling at me, and threaten law suit to me because i post the fact on this site, accuse me "damage his company reputation", I think the only person can damage a company reputation is yourself(the owner)by unpreofessional behavior like this.

Will keep you posted

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

2 March 2013
Please note Liren Wei, CPA (one of the references from NCI rep's post) killed the program after one and half year into the program, due to the low quality of the clients generated fro the program, based on my first hand information, I am using the two appointent setters Liren Wei used now.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

2 March 2013
I've always offered to pay them a commission on any new clients I received due to the program. Nope, weren't interested in doing it that way.

This is what's wrong with many things today. Companies don't wish you to stay because of the great service. They want to lock you in. Verizon calls and offers low price for a 2 year contract. How about just offering a decent price and provide great service. I don't want a 2 year cell phone contract either. I'm good month to month.

Provide the service properly and people will come to your door.

Gazoo (talk|edits) said:

2 March 2013
Things like this are terrible. Imagine the hapless accountant or other rube that takes a company along these lines to court.

I can imagine the lawyer of company X now.....

Ladies and Gentlemen of the jury, LOOK at the sorry specimen before you on the witness stand today. A trained accountant entrusted by our state to handle the affairs of others, and he got suckered into the program sold by my client (or so he says). He's trained to look under the hood and kick the tires, and what did he do? Nothing! Can he even handle his own affairs? No. What did his mamma teach him growing up? Nothing. Does he even know his left foot from his right? No!

etc, etc. etc. The refrain of "Nothing!" and "No" is like a hammer pulling back and coming down on the poor feller's head over and over again.

Fr. Mackelhenry (talk|edits) said:

2 March 2013
CPA/CPA firms killed the program due to lack of success in tri-state asrea

killed the program after one and half year into the program,


Yikes! May the grace of our Lord descend upon this post: quick!

Joe, don't let this get to you. I had to take a politically correct "priest training" from a no account non-profit on the subject of anger management in the church.

A bunch of egghead professors came over from the sociology department of the local university, and what a scruffy looking bunch they were. About as secular and liberal as you can get. Anyway, since I was told by the Pope to love all, I tried to listen to them and they said whatever you do, don't repeat certain words to yourself when you get mad. (I even took the Lord's name in vain three times in a row one time when a 200 pound bronze candlestick fell on my left foot during a Christmas Mass). The class taught me to just let my frustrations roll off my back and take a deep breath and just say, "meh, sh*t happens" and go on about my business in a calm and complacent manner.

Anyhow, this company and their ways or any company is not worth tormenting yourself over. Go get yourself a massage from a licensed outfit (avoid the shady areas of town). You are a lot better off with a massage and a prayer than you would be with a bottle full of tranquillizers chased down by a half bottle of Cold Duck. I grant my Apostolic peace to all. +

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

3 March 2013
Thanks everyone for your support! Fellow Accountant and CPAs, we all trained to be a good accountant, trying our best to help our clients to manage their financial matters, now is the company like NCI (New Clients Inc) take away our life savings, put us in terrible financial situation and after that tried to bully me by threating to take me to court (also note one more fact, the owner from NCI was calling me from a FL phone, might be use my sweat money vacationing!)

if I am going to the court, I will start a personal blogging to keep everyone posted...

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

3 March 2013
I wish accountant types had to take some marketing courses. Or public speaking. Or acting. Or something requiring contact with other people. Then maybe they'd go out and try to get their own clients instead of falling trap to someone marketing their services for big fees.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

3 March 2013
I will admit that when I started out I paid a fee to someone who brought me several clients. It was very expensive.

Gazoo (talk|edits) said:

3 March 2013
Let me give everyone some advice that will save you a lot of money on marketing. A lawyer told me this at a bar.

Give your business cards to the low life and the dregs of society. Don't waste your time giving your card to a so-called business prospect.

That's right, you heard me.

A downtrodden or socially shunned person never gets a business card thrown in his direction. By God, when he gets a card from someone he's in heaven. Someone has given him a business card. He starts whistling and dancing a jig and he might even try to waltz if he's watched enough old movies on TV.

You give your card to one of the dregs and the low life and you are like a very God to them, and they'll be the best and cheapest salesman for you that you can imagine. Give a rich man a card and he'll keep it in his car until there is a big holiday like the 4th of July, and he'll toss them up in the air and out of his sunroof like confetti, and they'll all fly away in the breeze adding a note of celebration and frivolity to the holi-day.

Keep in mind, the rich and the super rich enjoy keeping a posse of characters and low life around sort of like the old Kings and Queens kept the court jesters and short people and so on. They poke fun at them and run them around in circles and toy with them and this is one of the greatest sports of the rich and it always has been. As time goes on, the only people the rich man really trusts ARE his court jesters and he'll take their advice on anything under the sun...so give the jesters your card.

Consumer post removed - no profile.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

6 March 2013
So, you're saying that along with ALL the negative comments received, that there are a few happy clients as well. Very good.

Even a blind squirrel nabs a nut or two.

Post by someone who is not a tax or accounting pro removed.

Joecpa888 (talk|edits) said:

7 March 2013
this is exactly the situation - a blind squirrel can nab a nut or two. as I indicated in my previous post, one of the referrals provided by NCI, actually killed the program after one and half years into the program due to the sales person lowball the fees. That firm is a 70 people firm, so they did not care about the $30K upfront cost, and they remain silent, does that mean they are happy? not really. if NCI wants to sell the program (Plan II), one of the first questions you should ask what is the percent of the success rate in the area? will NCI disclose that information? there is no indication at all from NCI. even they provide that information, how true is the information? Another reason is that I noticed us fellow accountants/CPAs are generally nice quite people, so when NCI sucked our money, not too many people actually followed up, or when got barked at by the owner just like what happened to me, then get scared and back off...

http://www.bbb.org/new-jersey/Business-Reviews/marketing-consultants/new-clients-inc-in-mullica-hill-nj-80003278/complaints

note there are three unsolved compliants in one year (mine was one of it), BBB was trying to arbitrate between us and New Clients Inc. provided them the contract we signed, so according to the nice-designed contract, we have to go through the arbitration through another channel, that is why BBB closed the case but the complaint is actually unresolved. and they still A+ rating?


I feel I can write a book about this journey, must be interesting to read...

Gazoo (talk|edits) said:

7 March 2013
so according to the nice-designed contract, we have to go through the arbitration through another channel


No one should sign ANY contract that calls for mandatory pre-dispute arbitration. Arbitration is not the same thing as mediation.

A mandatory pre-dispute arbitration clause commits you to arbitration before there is even a dispute. Arbitration can be expensive and sometimes you are even required to leave your own state to go through the process.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

7 March 2013
You are 100% right, Gazoo. I have researched contract law related to this and consulted with some of my attorney friends, based on these information, no one should give up your rights to have a trial in court, before you get into a contract, and the fee is not cheap, plus it has to be resolved under NJ jurisdiction, like me i am in another state, and not familiar with the NJ jurisdiction, so it would be very difficult for me or for others getting into the same problem with NCI.

just noticed that this post has been access 6,280 times... interesting. hope everyone can learn a valuable ($30K plus all the operating lost) lesson from my mistake.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
I had to delete a post by BruceJ because it gave out someone else's phone number (not Bruce's, and presumably not another TA member's). I don't believe that is called for. Let Bruce post as many testimonials as he wants on his firm's site, but please don't post hearsay on this site. My patience is wearing thin. Bruce has already broken most of the rules of this site and is close to getting banned for his bad behavior. That speaks volumes in and of itself.

To CathysTaxes, you are correct, normally the moderators do not censor material, unless it is spam or a copyright violation, or otherwise overly and unnecessarily incindiary. In this instance, I felt I was justified, as it is for the protection of the named individual and his/her contact information. We do not have that person's permission to post his/her phone number here.

CathysTaxes (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
WOW, Kevin, I had to go back awhile to see what's going on. You were definitely justified because if a poster BREAKS the forum rules, then the posts should be censured or removed. I've been avoiding this discussion for the very reasons you mentioned. Thanks for keeping this forum respectable and professional.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
Kevin I was not aware I could not post a clients phone number to verify and confirm what I was saying.That being said why was the rest of my post deleted?My company has been attacked by numerious people with lies and distortions.My abilty to set the record straight should not be censored by you?And what other"bad behavior" are you referring too?I will ask my client to post his experience which will confirm what I had written but was removed.I am asking you to return my post minus the client contact information.

Bruce

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
Bruce, you started out 3 years ago by deleting others posts without warrant. You're not really a tax or accounting professional, although you used to be. But you've been allowed to continue to post in the hopes that you could provide something useful to others. So far, all you have done is try to defend your actions and those of your firm, without offering anything of use to those trying to grow a business. Very tiring. It might be nicer had you started a discussion on '10 ways to increase your income' or '5 things NEVER to do when prospecting' or something actually useful to those trying to grow a practice. All you appear to want to do is sell your firm's services, and this forum is NOT the place to do that. Your posts are not at all helpful in helping a prospective user of your services in determining WHAT they should be looking for if they're considering farming out their client acquisition.

YES, if an actual user of your services wants to join this site and give their own testimony of their experience, THAT would be very helpful. But you posting it is just hearsay, and worse, we have no way of verifying that you had your client's permission to publicly post their name and contact information. We're busy too. I don't have the time to sort the baby from the bathwater in your post, so I deleted the entire thing. Come on, teach us something actually USEFUL.

SashkaCPA (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
Thank you, Kevin.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
Post by a user with no profile has been removed. This person just signed into TaxAlmanac this evening, and this was his/her first post. Sorry, some people can't seem to follow simple instructions. We need to see your profile, please. You were asked to update it before posting anything.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
You're welcome, SashkaCPA. I do try to enforce the rules around here.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
In fairness to BruceJ, here is the text of his post that I deleted, MINUS any hearsay and names and contact info:

"**** first attended my seminar in 1996 when he was just starting his firm. He again attended in 2002 as my guest speaker. He also attended in 2009 along with four partners from his firm. The salesperson we hired and trained for him in 2009 secured over 100 clients in about a year. ***** who has been ranting and raving with *** posts concerning NCI .... Now *** claims **** ... If that's the case, why would *** agree to hire *** in the first place? Does this sound a little absurd to anyone?

- Today **** ... in *****. You can reach *** at ********** and verify for yourself what ** thinks of the NCI marketing programs and ....

-

- Bruce Clark"


  • Edited to remove hearsay, names and contact information, as BruceJ asked me to do.

Paulsonok (talk|edits) said:

11 March 2013
I had good success with NCI. They are not perfect but they have helped me grow my business. I have tried many marketing plans and mail drops and other efforts. NCI and their methodology has been one of the most helpful for me.


I have had to customize their program just a little but it sure beat buying a franchise or trying to create a whole system by scratch. I would work with them again, fore sure.

Joecpa888 (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
thanks Kevin for keeping the dignity of this post.

Although some of the information was removed by Kevin, but it appears that Mr. BruceJ post was talking about my posts and i would like to respond to it. how did i get suck into the plan II program? I was considering plan I program with NCI (3 day classroom), until i got a call from NCI to recommand a "superstar" CSR who used to work for another firm (the firm killed the program after one and half year). I missed a lot of warning signs including my conversation with his previous employer and hired the person. the person tured out to be a disaster and he was fired after one month. this is the story of the CSR.

Also I have done some research about "mandatory arbitration" that was on the NCI contract,I discovered many facts: 1. the arbitration resutls usually favors the corporation (the party who had the consumer sign the contract) 2. the arbitration cost could be expensive 3. as a consumer, you wavied the right to go to court 4. as a consumer, most likely you are not able to form a class of action under the arbitration clause

I will post more detail information about arbitration in my bolg, stay tuned

CathysTaxes (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
Kevin, I appreciate your due diligence in keeping TA professional! THANK YOU!

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
Kevin thanks for posting the fill-in-the-blanks version of my previous post that you removed. What's striking about your reply is you chastise me for providing names to verify facts while you allow others to spew unsubstantiated claims against my firm. If you find this "very tiring" as you stated, well that's on you because there is nothing more important in business than one's reputation. If you or anyone else thinks I'm going to sit idly by and allow this to occur than you are sadly mistaken. I did not spend the last 27 years trying to do everything right in my business and personal life to have lies and innuendo smear me and my firm. As I've already stated no one in business has a perfect track record and we have our detractors as one can see from this site, but I'll put my record of success in this industry up against anyone out there, period!

I do like your suggestion about adding some positive and useful information for the readers and I intend to do that.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
Bruce, you seem to miss the fact that these people are talking about THEIR experiences. They're not talking about someone else's experience or statements third hand (the definition of hearsay). You are. That is part of why I had to delete/edit your post.

And YES, we'd love to have you contribute some positive growth ideas to this forum. Please start another discussion for that, though, so it doesn't get caught up in all of this drama on this discussion.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
If you've been to one on NCI's practice marketing seminars in the past, then you know the value we place on setting and documenting goals. If you haven't attended and don't have a formal goal-setting system, then you are missing one of the most important aspects of being successful in any area of life or business. In 1991, I was starting my business over again after a contentious and costly legal battle with my former partner. During that trying time, I attended a seminar by Anthony Robbins. At that seminar, I learned a powerful and effective method of setting and reaching my life's goals. We now teach various aspects of that system at our Practice Development Seminar. How effective was goal setting for me? I went from a negative net worth to one in the millions of dollars within about 5 years. Instead of continuing the terrible habit of smoking two packs of cigarettes per day and not exercising, I quit smoking for good and I trained hard to receive my black belt in martial arts. I established and reached many other important milestones over the next 25 years by following this goal-setting process that I continue to utilize to this day. So, here are some tips to help you get the most out of this life-enriching process:

Specific: Your goals must be specific; if they are vague or ill-defined, they provide no meaningful direction.Don't think it ink it your goals must be written down and viewed from time to time.

Measurable: Your goals have to be measured and kept track of so you know when you've crossed the finish line.

Attainable: Goals that are unrealistic are wishful thinking and they do more harm than good. Set goals you have to stretch to achieve but not ones that are so far out of reach as to frustrate you.

Relevant: Your goals need to be relevant to the direction in which you want your life or your business to go.

Time-sensitive: If you give yourself forever, you will more than likely take forever to get there. Set goals according to the approximate time you estimate it will take to reach them. This includes short-term (days or weeks) medium-term (months) and long-term (a year+) goals. Develop a sense of urgency in setting and reaching your goals. Get started now and remember your goals are dreams with a deadline.

If anyone would like to receive goal sheets to record your goals in key specific ares of life and business Call our office at 800-338-0778 and will email them to you.

Bruce

PS I added this to this discussion so everyone would see I kept my word and will start a separate discussion as kevin has suggested about tips on practice marketing.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
Thank you, Bruce, that info is very helpful. AND you are speaking from your own experience. I appreciate that very much.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

12 March 2013
I have started a new post titled Practice Development Tips from New Clients Inc.Feel free to join in to discuss what has worked for you in marketing your accounting services.The post has an article titled "Features Tell Benefits Sell" to get the process rolling.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

13 March 2013
"while you allow others to spew unsubstantiated claims against my firm. ...., well that's on you because there is nothing more important in business than one's reputation. If you or anyone else thinks I'm going to sit idly by and allow this to occur than you are sadly mistaken"

first of all, "the unsubstantiated claim"? everything I posted is from my first hand experience, everything is base on fact, and the same for other accountants posted here.

In business world, no one can damage one's reputation but yourself, the CEO set the tone of the company, the reason that there are so many posts here is because NCI's plan II does not work for these people, instead of fixing the problem, NCI chose to bully the victims and they might have been succeed in the past - screaming and yelling to a woman does not add any point to you as a "honest businessman"

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

13 March 2013
I also agree Brucej point that we should discuss the product/service seperately when we are trying to make our point, i want to make my point clear here, my problem with the company is that the plan II program I signed up is not working for me.

New clients Inc has three main lines of busienss product/service:

Plan I - which I admit is helpful to accountants to learn something about marketing
Sell practice - which I can not comment, no experience
Plan II - this is the one I paid a large up front fee and got poor results (still bleeding from this bad investment)

just curious, what is the success rate of plan II? while my program failed, I would like to find out the success rate of plan II in past two years, especially in tri-state area.when I say successfully completed the program, I meant the accunting firm has completed the two year program, reached the 2 year goal designd by the plan and phoned the company to thank them? this information would be very helpful for other accountants when considering marketing their firm...

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

13 March 2013
The problem with that question, Joe, is that it just invites exaggeration. And it is unverifiable. I'd rather not fill up this forum with those claims. If the claim is verifiable, it should be on the firm's website, not here. If you'd like a specific dialog with BruceJ, maybe that should be taken offline.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

14 March 2013
sure, Kevin, will not continue this claim, although I do think this is very verifiable information.

thank you for all the work you have been doing here...

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

14 March 2013
I know as accountants we like numbers so I decided to do some adding.There are four people on this thread that have posted negative reviews of NCI's service and two who had both good an not so good things to say.On the other side of the ledger and as of today March 14th 2013 there are seven positive experiences listed by present and former clients.As I have already stated NCI has not hundreds but thousand's of references across the country that have benefited and continue to enjoy good success with our marketing,practice management and practice sales programs.Call our office and will be happy to provide the names and contact info.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

14 March 2013
The problem with your comparison, Bruce is that the subsets are not even similar. You can't assume that all NCI clients (happy or otherwise) regularly post on this discussion board.

If your analysis and logic were correct, there is only ONE happy NCI client in the world, and he is the one who posted the other night. That leaves thousands and thousands of dissatisfied NCI clients. By your own admission as to how many clients you have had.

See how silly it is to try to use statistics that are untrue? One satisfied customer out of thousands of customers.

NovaTaxGuy (talk|edits) said:

16 March 2013
As a newcomer to Tax Almanc, I am fascinated by this discussion about New Clients, Inc. I retained NCI in 2011 to implement Plan III for a new firm I had opened. We found after six months that NCI's client development program was not producing the results we both were expecting. I had followed the program exactly, attended the seminars, opened an office to NIC specs, and put the money into marketing. NCI had done everthing it promised to do. I concluded my market was saturated and demographically unresponsive to the NCI methodolgy. I contacted Bruce Clark and we negotiated a termination with partial refund. Businessmen often do this when both have lived up their obligations, but things haven't worked out. Brauce and his NCI team delivered everything they contracted to deliver, and I complied with every requirment of the NCI contract I had signed.

It is this last element - mutual contact compliance - that seems to be missing in some of the comments here. It may be that some of the commenters have not started businesses before, or were expecting more than was promised. I have found in 40 years of small business ownership that when things go wrong, it is the integrity of the parties that leads to successful remedies. This was certainly the case with NCI. Although we did not achieve success using NCI's program, we parted equitably and life moved on. In doing so, I found Bruce Clark to be a man of his word.

Like most things in life, perspective is an often over-looked element in human interaction. It has been my experience that sustainable profitability is most often achieved by business practitioners who understand responsibilty and seek to do the right thing.

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

15 April 2013
The following post was attempted to be placed on this discussion thread by a CPA client of mine but for some reason it was not accepted.I have copied and pasted his exact comments below.Anyone who wishes to confirm this may contact me at 800-338-0778 for his phone number and contact information for verification.

I have known Bruce Clark for over 27 years and found in my dealings with him and his organization to be nothing but positive.

Recently he helped me with the sale of my practice which also turned out to be very good. Not only is the transition going well and Bruce took the time to match the right buyer for my practice and helped put the financing together as well.

He is a man of his word and I would highly recommend NCI.


Frank

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

26 April 2013
Would like to receive a free copy of my book the NCI Effect Explosive Growth Plan for CPA's and Accountants?The hardback version retails for $22.95 but it can be yours for free by calling 1-800-338-0778 and mentioning you are a member of the Tax Almanac web blog.The book covers many of the sales and marketing techniques we teach at our 3 day Practice Development Seminar.It also includes numerous case histories of clients we've worked with and what has produced the best results in building their practices.

Bruce Clark

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

2 May 2013
Here again Brucej is trying to confuse the readers, for all the negative reviews/comments for NCI, are talking about the negative experience with NCI's Plan II program, not about his practice sell service or 3 day seminar.

Why concerns about his plan II program?

first, you have to pay $30K upfront within 3 days you sign the contract second, the contract has a arbitration clause forbidden law suit or class action, which is put you at a bad place when you try to recover the money.

third, the program costs a very large operating expense (1 sales person, minimum two app setter, I had 4 app setters at one point, larger space to put extra people in), so if not enough sales, you will not able to hold the program for two years as they put the guarantee

Fourth point, NCI is not willing to disclose the success rate of the plan II program, which is very easy to measure (if they sell 20 plan II programs in a year, they have a clear idea which program failed means the program was killed before reach two years)

I made the mistake and I am hoping that I can help other fellow accountants to avoid same mistakes, of course, if you really want to sign up NCI plan II program, before you hand your blood money of $30K to them, at least please consider the following to protect yourself and discuss with NCI:

1. have an attorney review the contract 2. ask the option to pay installment payments over two years term 3. request NCI to remove the arbitration clause to protect your legal right 4. request the success rate for plan II program in writing especially in your area such as NY, NJ...

also, feel free to contact me for any question, I will be happy to provide additional information to help

good luck with your practice growing!

BrownBob (talk|edits) said:

6 June 2013
Don't be confused by BruceJ, every TaxAlmanac member should simply take him up on his free book offer.

You don't have to read it. There are other things you can do with a free book. BrownBob

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

6 June 2013
There actually may be some very good information in the book. Personally, I think this is a generous offer by BruceJ.

TexasTaxTexas (talk|edits) said:

18 October 2013
It would be a bad idea to send Bruce your address expecting to only receive a free book. That makes staring a law suit for Defamation easier. It is also a bad idea to make a complaint to the BBB in his area. That can open you up to having to defend against a defamation suit in his state. We spent over $30,000 and only offered to refund $5,000 when the program failed to produce. We have received threats of law suit from him.

TexasTaxTexas (talk|edits) said:

18 October 2013
It would be a bad idea to send Bruce your address expecting to only receive a free book. That makes staring a law suit for Defamation easier. It is also a bad idea to make a complaint to the BBB in his area. That can open you up to having to defend against a defamation suit in his state. We spent over $30,000 and only offered to refund $5,000 when the program failed to produce. We have received threats of law suit from him.

TexasTaxTexas (talk|edits) said:

18 October 2013
Are we all talking about the same New Clients Inc? On their webpage http://www.newclientsinc.com/ there is a logo at the bottom that says 27th anniversary 1986 to 2013. However on BBB the A+ rating page http://www.bbb.org/new-jersey/business-reviews/marketing-consultants/new-clients-inc-in-mullica-hill-nj-80003278/ States business started 12/01/1990 (Not the date the BBB file was opened but the date the business started). Are these two separate companies?

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2013
I am sorry to hear what happened to you, taxestaxtexas. As I am also one of the victims of NCI Plan II program, and I have went through all the phases with NCI including report them to BBB. Not sure which stage you at right now?

This is how NCI operates: they ask you a $30,000 check upfront and due in 3 days, once you noticed the program is not working, they refuse to refund you anything ( I was in the program about 3 month, and they refused to even refund me a penny!!) then when you make a complaint to BBB, which I did, then BBB tried to arrange an arbitration, then NCI refused, said that ACCORDING TO TEH CONTRACT, the arbitration has to be at the place (NJ arbitration association)stated on the contract. Then BBB said, okay, go to that place, the matter is our of our hands. and I questioned how they have a "A" rating, and BBB replied that they responded (not resolved!!) to all claims. New Client Inc. only had 3 complaints when I contacted BBB, so they are a "A" rating. Now you can see how helpless BBB system is. Then you, the accountant continues the process to request refund from NCI, then Bruce jumps out, bully you and threat you for a lawsuit. Then at this process, most people backed up (us accountants so afraid of lawsuits) then the whole thing disappears, that is how New Clients Inc. survived for past 27 years by bullying us fellow accountants and taking our blood money.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2013
To answer your question, about which one is the NCI you have been dealing with? both are the same company, just what is on the website is not accurate. Base on what Bruce said in his own book, he started the company in the 80s with another partner then they got into a lawsuit, then Bruce got kicked out from the original company (I am wondering what he did..., that must be interesting!) then he started NCI in the beginning of 90s. So from his past, you might be able to tell what kind of person and operation he runs.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2013
To answer your question, about which one is the NCI you have been dealing with? both are the same company, just what is on the website is not accurate. Base on what Bruce said in his own book, he started the company in the 80s with another partner then they got into a lawsuit, then Bruce got kicked out from the original company (I am wondering what he did..., that must be interesting!) then he started NCI in the beginning of 90s. So from his past, you might be able to tell what kind of person and operation he runs.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

21 October 2013
I want to correct one thing I said before - according to BBB, NCI had ONLY 3 complaints in this year, so they stay at A rating.

And when NCI took all of our money, they will throw a bone back to you (the $5000) like to a dog.

the scary part about his program is not only the $30K you give to them, but the huge operating expenses come with it, it could be $70K or $100K additional expense in the first year. So the projection NCI provide to you, the expenses are right on the money, and the revenue, you be the judge.

Anyone else is considering to give them your blood money, be alert!

Lastly, don't be concerned about his threat for lawsuit, and don't get caught up by his bullying, that is his strategy, do the right thing for yourself and figure what is the best way to move out from this mess!

Good Luck!

Incognito (talk|edits) said:

23 October 2013
C'mon! Really? $30K upfront. If they need to charge you $30K upfront, then that means they doubt the success of their product even more than you. You and your money deserve to be parted. In every get rich, quick scheme, there is only one party that gets rich.

Joecpa38 (talk|edits) said:

29 October 2013
Yes, $30K upfront, and they called me nonstop to ensure they got paid in 3 days!

NCI knows the successful rate, so that is the trick to get all the money upfront, then make you sign a contract to give up your rights to go to court!

I am also surprised how can they last for so long? maybe us accountants just too nice?

TexasTaxTexas (talk|edits) said:

18 November 2013
They have enough of these problems to have to create a Vice President title/position dedicated to these problems:

Carol Ann Cook, VP of Arbitration, (609) 588-0509 Ext 16

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

20 November 2013
Much to the chagrin of TexasTaxTexas NCI has the sum total of 5 complaints with the BBB and another 6 posted on this site.11 complaints in 27 years with over 4500 clients.And just like Joecpa38 this gentleman ran his marketing program for the sum total of 10 weeks.When his sales team was not performing we wanted to return and train a new CSR as called for in our agreement.He declined that offer as well as a recent offer to refund a portion of the fees paid to us even though contractually we are not required to do so.Had Joecpa38 and TexasTaxTexas put as much effort into running our marketing system as they have slandering NCI they would be one of our many success stories.

NCI has posted our version of events regarding TexasTaxTexas complaint on the BBB web site.Feel free to review our side of the story and then make your own determination.

Bruce Clark

Mikec61 (talk|edits) said:

26 November 2013
Has anyone tried using the USPS Direct Door mailing program? If so, what have been your results?

Thanks Mike

Brucej (talk|edits) said:

29 November 2013
Mike I'm not familiar with the USPS program but as a general rule we have found direct mail to be a waste of time and money.

Bruce

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