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Discussion:Gay Basher, Dobson Asso. found w/ rentboy

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Discussion Forum Index --> General Chat --> Gay Basher, Dobson Asso. found w/ rentboy


CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
George Rekers, (another) Christian Right leader, Baptist minister, anti-gay uber-advocate, is found with rent-boy on Euro tour.

Rekers says the boy was along to help him carry his bags. Nothing sexual about it at all.

Read shocking story here: http://www.miaminewtimes.com/2010-05-06/news/christian-right-leader-george-rekers-takes-vacation-with-rent-boy/1


Again, it's the sheer hypocricy of this that burns me up. You find someone to carry your bags from rentboy.com?

Remember Pastor Ted Haggard? President of the National Association of Evangelicals? Preached against homosexuals? Another purveyor of rent boys.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Haggard Yep, old Ted.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
you'd think that these rent-boys would be concerned for their image, what with all their bad association with the Radical Right.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
If it weren't for the Radical right, I'm not so sure they'd have any customers. lol.

I guess I should be more precise and say Radical Right ministers. I think it was about a month ago we were discussing the Rev. Paul Crouch, co-founder of Trinity Broadcasting Network. He seems to have had a young man helping him out on his ranch. Money changed hands, agreements were signed ("keep quiet" agreements they call them). Ahem. The Show Must Go On.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
In his defense, I've always heard that you should walk a mile in the other man's moccassins before criticizing him. In this case, we'll assume that neither wore any protective moccassin.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
on second reflection, I've never heard anyone say to put the other man's foot into your moccassin.....

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
A rich minister like this can afford to have his relations on a bear rug.

Or I guess I should say a bareback rug. lol.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
me thinks he doth protest too much

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
More news on Minister Rekers: claims he just tried to spread his message of love to the boy, needed a trip to Europe with him to do it.

Read more of the shocking details here and above:

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/2010/05/05/2010-05-05_top_antigay_christian_activist_and_minister_george_alan_rekers_linked_to_gay_esc.html

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
I'll bet he spread more than that

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

5 May 2010
Please note, I don't mean to intimate that anyone mentioned in this post or in the title hereto bashed a gay/homosexual person physically.

Minister Rekers is an esteemed professor, preacher, co-Founder with James Dobson of the pro-family* anti-gay Family Research Council, and apparently a world traveler as well. He wouldn't hit anybody.

.*Lucein's family?

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

6 May 2010
>> BREAKING NEWS <<

Escort Lucien spills the beans. According to Lucien, anti-gay Minister Lekers' preferred the "long-stroke" sex technique.

Read all about it here: "Rekers allegedly named his favorite maneuver the "the long stroke" — a complicated caress "across his penis, thigh... and his anus over the butt cheeks," as Lucien puts it. "Rekers liked to be rubbed down there," he says.

Quote from The Miami New Times.

Read more about it here: http://gawker.com/5532643/the-rentboy-speaks-george-rekers-liked-the-long-stroke

Meanwhile, back at the Ranch, anti-gay minister Rekers continues to deny the story, and he is now comparing himself to Jesus, saying they both spent time with prostitutes.

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Please. Everyone knows he did it. Reminds me of Strom Thumond, segregationist and fighting for white supremacy all the while, raping his 15 year old black maid and having a child with her, and never admitting the duplicity. This makes me believe in karma; these hypocrites are going to pay for it all someday, one way or another.

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
By the way, my husband just asked if I would "carry his luggage" tonight. Does anyone understand what that means?

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Now I know what it means! I'll never be able to ask another person to carry my luggage without turning red. lol.

Keep in mind, Rev. Rekers is a Phd. Psychologist. He wrote many Bull S*it studies against homosexuality. How could a psychologist be in such denial? One wonder's if he's psychotic? Delusional?

He was also in the camp of those wishing to turn homosexuals into straights. He's an officer of one such group. NARTH. (or he was an officer, I don't know now).

Does he check himself in now for treatment? Will he be cured through the same false therapies he "invented" as anti-gay "scholar" to the far right? Look at it this way, if anyone knows that these therapies don't work, it would be the REAL George Rekers.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
carry his luggage = lift his sack, I believe

(according to Stephen Colbert in this video, with quite handsome rent-boy of his own)

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Love the Daily Show and the Colbert Report

EasternPA (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
That brings up a point. Should rent boys report on Schedule E or Schedule C? Looking at the short term lease agreements of less than 7 days and the extra customer service they provide, I'd say Sch C is in order.

Now where is that post on who has to issue 1099Misc's to whom? Or do ministers get a special dispensation?

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
and then the connundrum of Rent-Boy, LLC. From what I understand, the 'check the box' election is unavailable to them.

EasternPA (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
We'll also have to weigh the evidence to see who is a passive member and who is an active member.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
don't forget to inquire about bifurcation

NMexEA (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Does the Rev. have to give the rent boy a 1099 and if so, which version?

NMexEA (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Oh, sorry, I see that the question was asked already. That would be a Form 1099SEX, right?

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
no one seemed to get my 10-69 post.

NMexEA (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Frankly, Kevin, I was afraid to go there.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
where was that? See, I did miss it. I must not have a dirty mind.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Discussion:Independent Contractor or Employee ? (Pics)

I'm sure that your mind is as clean as mine, Fred.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
but of course. I am most innocent

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
"who is a passive member and who is an active member."

Shouldn't this be rephrased to ask who has the active member and who has the passive member?

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
And I'd register the name "Rent-BOB LLC"

Bob being Bend Over Buddy

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
I wonder what makes anyone in public life in this day think they can get away with anything ... politicians and religious leaders. It was not always so ... the press use to protect it favorites but that is no longer possible with the internet.

A number of years ago (less than 10), I was watching one of the Press Club Luncheons on C-span. One of the reporters asked a question in such a way that he bragged about the fact he had seen the Secret Service escort one of JFK's girl friends to the Presidential Suite in a major hotel and he did not report it. His comment was that maybe they were have a "prayer meeting". That still makes my blood boil. I was a supporter of Robert Kennedy as Attorney General pushing civil rights. I believed Kennedy should have fired Hoover for refusing to look at civil rights violence, etc. Now we know why he didn't, Hoover had a thick file on all of Kennedy's affairs. As politically ambiguous as the Kennedys were ... I doubt they would have had the affairs if they knew the press would report them. So Hoover would have had nothing to use as blackmail and he would have been fired.

BTW, I one of those elephants about whom Crow likes to make disparaging remarks. But then, it was the Republicans that were abolitionist, elected Lincoln, passed the 13th amendment, 19th amendment, and gave Johnson the votes to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
yes, they did once serve a useful purpose

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Okay -- this is a chat room. I know that it has nothing to do with taxes. And this is not a political column...but I am wondering why in the world you guys are gloating over someone who has messed up (I don't mean by getting caught, I mean by engaging in the activity to begin with). I don't agree with the athiests or the homosexuals...but I don't go around screaming how they are wrong and how the are messing up. I don't post anything from politically conservative sites on this chat board that bash any of the athiest or progressive world views. Why do you feel the need to post this on here?

Is this guy in the wrong? Yes...

Did he mess up? Yes...

However, I am tired of the top posts here in the past few days not being about mundane or funny things but about something that certain people know is going to upset other people. I am upset that this has happened...but have you guys ever thought any differently of me because I am an evangelical christian who happens to like James Dobson and Focus on the Family? Have I been perfect in my life and always lining my actions up with what FOF says? Lord NO...but I still support them and what they are trying do say and do.

   So Crow, please remember that we are not perfect nobody is, Christians are just smart enough to realize that and look to the source of the One that can help them be better people.  Do we fail and mess up ...as you can tell from this article and others that you have posted recently, yes we do. As a professor once said ...If someone looks at you and says I don't understand, that person is such a good person, but doesn't beleive in God or isn't a Christian...look at them and say " how much better do you think they would be if they were a Christian?"  If someone looks at you and says " that person is horrible and they go to church and claim to be a Christian" then answer "How much worse do you think they would be if they didn't claim to be a Christian?"

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
It wouldn't be an issue if he wasn't one of the nation's leading anti-gay activists.

If he was just someone who had a homosexual relationship, it would not be an issue. Barney Frank is an admitted homosexual and he is not bashed for it.

This guy tries to "cure" people because they are "not well". This guy crusades against this. He asked for it and deserves any and all abuse that can be heaped upon him.

This is similar to the Eliot Spitzer deal here in NY with him being Client #9. He campaigned against and was a strong voice in the battle against prostitution.

If you don't want to be ridiculed as a public figure then don't be a hypocrite. If he was true to his beliefs, then he would be just someone with which people didn't agree with, but when he does this and then he tries to "bend the public over" and tell us it was because RentBoy was there to carry his luggage, well, hellooooooooooooooooooooo. He deserves everything he gets. Just as Spitzer did.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
hypocrisy, especially in a public figure, is always of interest

Where he messed up was not in engaging in his sex act(s), it was in condemning others publicly while secretly doing the same. I can assure you, one does not hire a Rent-Boy for a 10 day vacation as one's first foray into gay sex.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
It was pretty funny when we made fun of Geithner <sp?> and his screw up when he did his return with TT and tried to use that as an excuse. Well, he just messed up. It goes with the territory.

Laticiaw, if you "mess up" and go out and do something and fall out of favor with the church, none here would ridicule you as long as you aren't out there in the public eye condemning the very act that you committed.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Yeah, as Kevin said, it's not the first time, that usually happens at sleep away camp with the counselor telling you it's cold outside and that he wants to practice winter survival skills.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Also, the emotional turmoil he has caused many youth (I will dare say that it may have added to the suicide rate of gay youth) is reprehensible.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Fred, you forgot to say 'church sleep away camp'.

When I was 14, I attended such a church camp: Maranatha. I do remember my cabin counselor encouraging us to do certain things with or in front of him.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
funny, now, when I look up the definition of Maranatha, Wikipdia says it means "Our Lord, come!"

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Fred, was that you in the bunk underneath me?

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Kevin, I tried to stay away from the religious hypocrisy out there. I am trying to have some empathy here. The wars fought, the horrors performed, all in the name of this religion, or that religion and that it is gods will that these be done make me absolutely sick. That people are right or wrong based on the interpretation of gods will. Please don't get me started there. Good thing Crow didn't post what that Brazilian nut, errr priest/bishop said the other day.

Luckily, I am not of that religion <which is why I wasn't under your bunk>, I was raised Lutheran and am now Methodist. I don't believe that we believe ourselves to be the chosen people where all others are forsaken. I am not overly religious but I like the belief that sin is inherently embedded in all of us and it is the battle to control the urges of these sins that make us good people.

I'm thinking that's why I like Vegas, it's so my embedded repressed sins can enjoy the company of the other outgoing sins.

I am not without sin myself, but I don't go preaching on and on and on about don't do this or don't do that or you will burn and then secretly do those things that I tell others not to.

This hypocrisy of anti-gay rantings by Rekers would be similar to Kevin <sorry Kevin> being caught by the IRS for fraudulently filing hundreds of EIC returns using borrowed russian children as dependents.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
it would only be hypocritical if I were actually caught?

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
(P.S. Maranatha camp was run by the Free Methodist church I attended in the 1970's)

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Kevin, you should know by now that nothing in life is free. You paid with your soul.

As for getting caught, that was rule #29 in the fraternity I joined. Rules are made to be broken, just don't get caught.

Many preferred the rule above all learn to take it. I always preferred #29.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
I think the camp counselor was trying to teach that same 'learn to take it' rule.....

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
this was, coincidentally, about the time that the movie Deliverance was out

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
well, I guess a little later - Deliverance was 1972

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Too funny. Kevin, you have no clue how close to Deliverance country I live. I am here in the sticks. I sleep to the tune of banjos playing the medley.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
one other funny but strange recollection, now that you have me reminiscing...I had asked my camp-mates to call me 'KC' instead of Kevin (C being my middle initial). This was before KC & The Sunshine Band, but the news on KC from the band is that.....yup, he, like George Rekers, likes boys.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Now you will never listen to "That's the way, uh huh, uh huh, I LIKE it, uh huh, uh huh" the same again.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
I got to hear/see KC in concert about 12 years ago at Chastain Park in Atlanta.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
LOL. Although, if the commercials are also playing by you. KC gets to keep his name but the Sunshine Band has to change theirs to match the bank name.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
"BTW, I one of those elephants about whom Crow likes to make disparaging remarks. But then, it was the Republicans that were abolitionist, elected Lincoln, passed the 13th amendment, 19th amendment, and gave Johnson the votes to pass the 1964 Civil Rights Act"

Notice how the Elephants always take credit for the few LIBERAL things they do. Proving that even a 2x4 can have an enlightened moment once or twice every century.

Are they ashamed of ALL the other stuff they do? They should be. They never mention it so they must be ashamed of it. It's the only group I know that would take granny's denture cream away (after taking her bread away the day before). Who wouldn't want to hide that?!

If being liberal is what they brag about, let's have more liberalism from these quarrelsome Elephants! lol.

Do we need a man like Herbert Hoover again?

Anyway, I won't say more. This post is too important to be ruint by arguing over how bad the Elephants are.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Fred, I just found it and watched. Funny.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
and this longer version is funny also

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Okay Kevin, you have a point. However, you will find that FOF and most other churches that I know...once the sin has been found out...the organization will handle it in such a way that the person involved will not be in a position of authority anymore. Period. That is the difference between the church and the world.

I belong to a church where one of my friends had a friend that was a youth pastor in another district...he was FALSLY accused of raping a girl at a teen camp -- He was not anywhere near where she said he was at the time...and has almost every other person at the camp to confirm this (he was up front preaching at the time). My demomination not only put him on leave...he didn't get paid and his license was revoked on just the accusation of a obsessed teenage girl.

There is another guy that I know from a church that I used to go to, that was caught cheating on his wife...his license was revoked, and the denomination has refused to this day to reinstate his license. Point blank, you never hear of the stories where the issue is handled by the church in an appropriate manner, instead you only hear about the Catholic Church ignoring the issue. Or about the churches that ignore the issue and go on as if nothing happened. There are consequenses to your sin. For this guy, it is the embarressment that he was caught doing something that he preached against. There is also the rift between his family, his church, and most importantly his God. He is probably going to be given the boot as well. The Bible says to be gentle as Doves and wise as Serpents. In other words, as a Christian we have to forgive...in this case I wasn't harmed I have nothing to forgive...but we don't have to forget. Those are the consequences of our sin.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
ergo the humiliation.

And Crow, please do not turn this into a political discussion. Holy cow.  ;-)

Kevin - You never saw that commercial before? It's hysterical.

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Oh and Crow, there is nothing liberal about freeing the slaves or civil rights...that all comes from the conservative out look that everyone should be given equal opportunity...not equal outcomes...:)

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
We got a debate going!

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Laticiaw, couldn't the conclusion instead be that being gay is NOT wrong? That the very fact that Rekers is gay (while charading as being in a heterosexual marriage) when he has so much alleged 'experience' in 'converting' gays to heterosexualty proves that being gay is innate, and not a choice? He certainly didn't choose it, he was born with it.

Oh by the way, two of the founders of the 'ex-gay' organization, Exodus International, had a same-sex commitment ceremony. Other Exodus leaders have since come out as also being gay (and apologized for their involvement with something causing so much anguish in the lives of youth). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exodus_International

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
Isn't it tragic the way people will demonize what they fear in themselves? Seems to me Hitler and at least one of his henchment (Heydrich) had fears of Jewish ancestry.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
All good Crow. And I assume that when these organizations decry gay/homosexuality that they are not including lesbians and bi-sexual women in this group.

For, to include lesbians and bi-sexual women into the mix would really really really get me on the grassroots get er done route. For how can something so beautiful be considered wrong in the eyes of god.

I mean, come on, whenever my Jen asks me, I tell her that all women are beautiful and that what could be more beautiful than one woman, but two woman, together, filling out that 10-69 form.

Lord, I do believe it might be time to pray.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

7 May 2010
That's true. I have heard some of the conservative preachers say something bad about ONE lesbian, but never two. lol. GLORY!

David, there are all kinds of similarities. There were many George Rekkers types in the SA (repressed homosexuals with reaction formation to act just the opposite). The far right has always attracted repressed homosexual males.

Once Hitler came to power, the professional German officer corps. objected to the SA. Hitler "disbanded" them on the night of the long knives. End of that Chapter.

Hitler used this Party Militia (SA) to gain power, then he did away with them (they were too unstable). There's a lesson in that for all these militia boys out there in the USA now. They think they are big men, when in reality they are the fools who will be tossed in the trash once they help the next wacko gain power. And I certainly hope that never happens.....

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
Point blank, when we way that homosexuality is wrong, we mean it in the same way as adultery is wrong, drunkeness is wrong, gluttenny is wrong. Period. Kevin, sin is sin is sin. Telling a little white lie is sin. Being a hypocrite is a sin. This person will be disciplined by the church because what he did was wrong. Just because you think that it is something that you are born with doesn't mean that it is. Please find the DNA for being gay or lesbian. Can't find it. Saying that I was born this way is an excuse.

If you do not believe the Bible, then you are not going to like my answers. I can give you reference and information on why I know that homosexuality/lesbianism is a sin, however if you don't accept the Bible as truth, then we have no common ground to start a discussion on.

We have differing world views. I can still respect your opinion in the work force. Trust me I have gotten a lot of wisdom from your posts. However, how we view the world is differing because our source of truth is different. So our personal lives will be different. That's it. I don't agree with you, you don't agree with me. There is room in this great country for both both of us :) There is even room for Crow and me as well :) I was just asking that he be a little more considerate of his posts. I don't go out of my way to post stories about fallen progressives, or whatever his religious preferences are, please leave mine alone. There's an old adage...if you can't say something nice, don't say it at all. I have yet to read a compliment about a Christian or a conservative. I respect Crow's opinion on the law and on taxes and have gotten a lot of help from his posts as well. Why does he feel the need to post that on here other than to cause a lot of anger on both sides.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
I'm glad you posted your opinion. Doesn't bother me at all. The whole purpose of posting here is so that other people will post.

I do object to any assumptions you may make regarding my source of truth. With all due respect, not all Christians believe as you do. Some Christians are fundamentalists, and some are not. Just as some Muslims are fundamentalists (Taliban etc.), and some are not.

There are Christian churches today with openly gay ministers, and openly gay members in their congregations, sitting there with straight people and whatever else. They get along.

Now to the man Rekers. The point is that people like Rekers don't want to live and let live.

They want to foist their sicknesses on the rest of us. They want to foist their morals on the rest of us, and use the Bible to do it like they speak for God himself.

Rekers makes it his business to do it. He advises government agencies. He testifies before Congress. He recently testified in front of the Florida legislature against allowing gay adoption.

Keep in mind that Rekers himself had adopted a 16 year old boy, now 20, the same age as Lucien, at least that is what the press is reporting.

He's obsessed with sex, particularly sex as it concerns the young, or so it seems. HE brings God into it, not ME.

Darn right I'm going to expose him if he is a hypocrite. After all, he certainly was not shy about venting his views.

The Minister Rekers might have been responsible for a few suicides of young people along the way.

Some gay people might have been beat up or killed because of his "junk" science.

So I agree, Minister Rekers needs to start saying nice things about people, and I'll start saying nice things about him.

God spoke to me last night (like he spoke to George Bush all the time, especially before a war). It's hard to believe, but God talks to Jack Asses as well as Elephants. God told me that people could read this post and still survive.

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
By the way Laticiaw, I will let Minister Rekers speak in his own defense. We need to hear his side of the story. Here is ONE of his websites. There are links to his other websites you can see on this website. You will see that he has quite a Christian interest in the young.

Read here to get Minister Rekers side of the story, fair is fair >>>>

http://www.professorgeorge.com/ProfessorGeorge.com/Welcome_to_ProfessorGeorge.com.html

P.S. Minister Rekers is also a professor.

I am glad that Laticiaw entered the public square to debate, and nothing I say should be cohstrued as anything personal or negative against any poster here. Though I do agree that we have probably worn this post out, and should move on.

EasternPA (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
IMHO:

There's little hope for Mankind, if we think of us as fallen angels in need of tucking a little lust here and nipping in a little selfishness there. And then we can climb back on the cloud.

I see more hope if we see ourselves as rising apes - trying to overcome all the deeply seated survival instincts and behaviors that are as old as the fossil records. We need to recognize the monumental task that it is. For example, we are all capable of murder. And we are all gullible enough to believe politicians, when they ask us to sacrifice our own sons and daughters. We want to believe that we are good and noble and that we are special. We want to cheer when the home team trounces the visiting team.

As villages grow into towns into cities into states into nations into continents, we need to figure out how overcome our deeply seated fears and worst tendencies. We need to figure how to expand our understanding so that it extends beyond our family, our village, our town, our nation... so that we can protect our land, our streams, our atmosphere, our oceans, our wildlife.

Amen.

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
Sorry-- I agree with Crow that this thread is just about done, but I found this:

Rekers authored a paper in 1980 called “The Christian World View of the Family,” where he advocated that the husband is the absolute ruler of the family and that women should NOT BE ALLOWED to work, except in the case of emergecies, and even then, women should only be "allowed" to work in temporary employment.

“the wife may, [only] with her husband’s approval, accept temporary outside employment, but... the family should view this as bondage, strive to liberate itself, and petition God for liberation.” Dr. George Rekers

Also, we know that Reckers testified in Flordia that homosexual couples should be banned from adoption, but Reckers also advocated that Native Americans should ALSO be banned from adoption, because they are "prone to substance abuse and mental illness."

I mean, Seriously? Native Americans, too?

I'll admit, when this story broke, I felt a little sorry for the guy.

But now I think he deserves everything that he gets.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
Laticia, I do hope that you don't construe any of this as an attack against you, because it is not. I believe that Crow said it well when he indicated that there are many types of religions and there are many offshoots of these religions. Yours is not superior to mine or Crows or to anyone else's.

As for the bible, that is entirely an interpretive work of art. Different readings will bring different interpretations. I respect your right to believe in the interpretations that you believe in, but I do hope you respect our right to disagree and debate/point out things we don't agree with.

The history of religion is a funny thing. way back when people believe you could tithe your way into heaven. Heck, some still do. do what you will during the week and as long as you pay your toll, you in. But, I really don't want to drag this post into a religious discussion.

It is my personal belief that when people use religion, or beliefs such as morality as a tool/weapon to bring harm to others that the masses rise up and speak out against these things and this is what Rekers has done. He has used his power and his influence to bring an incredible amount of pain and suffering and possibly even death to various groups of people based on his "beliefs". This is wrong. Some things you don't need to be instructed on. When intelligence rises to such a level, it is inherently wrong. Using slavery as an example. And it truly boggles my mind that it took until the 1800's for intelligent people to understand that owning another person is wrong. That the statement that women are inferior to men is wrong <yes, it hurts me to actually say that>. Killing in the name or religion is WRONG. Shouldn't matter who you are, how you were raised, if you have intelligence, these things should be able to be seen if not clouded by "beliefs".

If a politician is spouting religion and morality and is rising to power and wielding influence based on these beliefs is found to be sleeping with whores and having extramarital affairs, then that is a public issue with which he should be called out on. Tiger woods on the other hand, it's a personal problem between him and his family and should be none of our business.

It's good to have healthy debate, that is how the free exchange of ideas work. I don't always agree with Crow, or Kevin, or others on here and sometimes we banter excitedly about these topics, but, that won't change the respect I have for them in this virtual community.

And I agree with the others that until further information comes out on that loser, cause that is what he is, this has become a finished topic.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
I also take exception to your thought, Laticiaw, that I may not be a Christian just because I don't agree with what your church teaches (you weren't born with those beliefs were you? I mean, can you show me the DNA?)

As far as homosexuals being born different, yes, there are many scientific studies showing differences (albiet none were financed by the Focus On Family organization). But for you to say that God didn't make them that way is totally ridiculous. You are belittling God if you think He is incapable of knowing what He is doing.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
And if your church relies on Leviticus, please rely on the entire book and not just one verse.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
this is from the Religious Tolerance.org website:

The code requires:

A child to be killed if he/she curses their parent (Leviticus 20:9) 
All persons guilty of adultery to be killed (20:10) 
The daughter of a priest who engages in prostitution to be burned alive until dead (21:9) 
The bride of a priest to be a virgin (21:13) 
Ritual killing of animals, using cattle, sheep and goats (22:19) 
Observation of 7 feasts: Passover, Feast of Unleavened Bread, Feast of Firstfruits, Feast of Pentecost, Feast of Trumpets, Day of Atonement, Feast of Tabernacles (23) 
A person who takes the Lord's name in vain is to be killed (24:16) 

The code prohibits:

Heterosexual intercourse when a woman has her period (Leviticus 18:19), 
Harvesting the corners of a field (19:9), 
Eating fruit from a young tree (19:23), 
Cross-breeding livestock (19:19), 
Sowing a field with mixed seed (19:19), 
Shaving or getting a hair cut (19:27), 
Tattoos (19:28), 
Even a mildly disabled person from becoming a priest (21:18), 
Charging of interest on a loan (25:37), 
Collecting firewood on Saturday to prevent your family from freezing, 
Wearing of clothes made from a blend of textile materials; today this might be cotton and polyester, and 
Eating of non-kosher foods (e.g. shrimp). This prohibition has been satirized on the God Hates Shrimp website. 

Of the 613 laws, most Christian denominations regard very few as binding on Christians today. Conservative Christians often accept:

the Ten Commandments found in three places -- one of them being Exodus 20:3-17. 
Leviticus 18:22 and 20:13 which relate to sexual behavior of two men. 

They also accept laws which prohibit:

Sexual contact between individuals who are too closely related,  
Bestiality: out-of-species sexual contact,  
Adultery, and 
Some laws regarding the execution of properly convicted murderers. 

21st century Christians are free to wear have sexual relations during the wife's monthly period, wear tattoos, eat shrimp, lobster, pork or meat cooked rare, wear polyester-cotton blends, seed their lawns with a grass mixture, and get their hair cut. But most conservative Christians consider homosexual behavior -- and sometimes merely having a homosexual orientation -- as taboo. At first, we were unable to find any logical explanation that would justify conservative Christians concentrating so much on these two laws against homosexuality while abandoning most of the remaining 611 Mosaic laws.

But further examination found the reason.

Using an Protestant English translation of the Bible, conservative Christians believe that the validity of the two anti-homosexual "clobber" passages in Leviticus has been verified by passages in Paul's Epistles. The NIV and KJV of the Bible clearly condemn homosexual behavior at 1 Corinthians 6:9 and Romans 1:28 in the Christian Scriptures. These translations generally interpret the Greek words "malakoi" and "arsenokoitai" as referring to homosexuals.

We can be fairly certain that this is not the meaning that Paul wanted to convey. If he had, he would have used the Greek word "paiderasste." That was the standard term at the time for males who had sex with males. We can conclude that he probably meant something different from persons who engaged in male-male adult sexual behavior. Down through the years, Christians have interpreted these words as referring to people of lacking a high moral standing, or to masturbators, or to men who sexually abuse boys, or to boys who are the victims of sexual abuse. Interpreting these passages as referring to sexually active homosexuals appears to be simply the latest in a long series of attempts to make sense out of obscure words. The precise meaning is unknown; it was buried with Paul.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
Are you trying to tell me that bestiality is a sin? Shoot and dagnabbit.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
I was doomed, along with all of the Focus On The Family members, at the first haircut.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
(I'm sure that I did try to protest, for what it's worth)

Tax Writer (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
I'm in absolute agreement about the polyester blends, Kevin. Anyone who wears them really deserves to be severely punished.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

8 May 2010
unlike the 60's years, those of us coming of age in the 70's DO remember them

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

9 May 2010
It is so much more fun to argue politics than religion. I know my vote will just offset Crow's anyway! But now religion, that is getting very personal as I close in on that "The days of our years are threescore years and ten.." Kevin wrote about Paul's writings: "The precise meaning is unknown; it was buried with Paul." I getting awful close to asking him! It is interesting to be facing ones mortality.

I think I am tax homophobe ... when you ask questions like , who owns the home ... we do. Who paid the mortgage ... we did from a joint checking account. etc.

BTW, quit wasting time on this chat board. Do a few more tax returns! Keep my Social Security and Medicare coming! What do you think this is ... Greece!

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

10 May 2010
Guys, I didn't want to get in an argument with everyone...I don't agree with what you say. Because again you do not have the same world view as me. Blame it on my history professor at college. But how you look at the world, and whether you believe in absolute truth or not is going to determine everything that you say and do. Again, I don't agree with your beliefs and you are not going to agree with mine. I can say that there is room in this nation for you and your opinions, I'm not going to kill you. But I am also going to say that you are wrong. However, I don't believe that because you are wrong that I should be out there shooting you, killing you, bashing you, or picking on you. That's not what being a Christian is all about. I can look at you and tell you that you are wrong in what you are saying, but that I am not going to look down on you and still treat you with dignity because we are made in the image of God. You still have value, worth, and are important. You know what, I can also accept you telling me that I am wrong...that's where differing opinion is allowed. We can agree that the other person is wrong and then choose to work around that or we can choose to allow it to divide us.

All I was asking is that since many of us Christians on this site don't go around posting every personal flaw or hypocritical flaw of people of other faiths or no faiths (especially those that have NOTHING or no impact on our careers), could those of you please have the same consideration for us?

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

10 May 2010
I can almost agree with a lot of what you say, even though you ARE wrong. There is a big difference between disparaging a public figure who uses his faith as a weapon against others.

I am a Christian as well, but you know as well as I do that there are varying degrees within the Christian faith. No one is going around blasting religions. A priest accused of molesting a young boy does not deserve sympathy or protection. Sorry, you are wrong there if you believe that. If you believe they should go free for that, then so should every criminal who has committed a crime, the fact they are priestly pedophiles shouldn't count.

Rekers is a hypocritical dirtbag who is getting exactly what he deserves. If he was just a Christian who strayed and did not go out of his way to persecute people, then sure, feel sorry for him. But, this man has created issues for multitudes of people and that cannot go unnoticed when his hypocritical rentboy buttjumping occurs.

Don't get me wrong, I respect your right to your views even though they are wrong. Completely wrong, not even close to being right, but I do respect your right to have them no matter how wrong they are as long as they don't infringe on my or anybody else's rights.

Just as I do not like all music on the radio, I reserve the right to change the channel. The only way this thread continues is if you continue to post about it. We've pretty much let it run it's course, but your comments needed to be addressed.

If you'd like, I can tell you how I truly feel about some religions and the people who live in their glass houses.

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

10 May 2010
Interesting we have a long thread dealing with Gays ... Gays hit the news again. Obama's nominee to the Supreme Court supports gay rights to the exclusion of the military. Elena Kagan's Achilles' Heel Oh well, what's new anyway ... we all knew liberals hate America! I bet she would even support the right of a teacher to prevent a student from drawing an American flag. Teacher Deems Student’s American Flag Drawing ‘Offensive’

NMexEA (talk|edits) said:

10 May 2010
Kevin: "The code requires:"

Me: You might be surprised, Kevin, at the number of those obligations and prohibitions that are still honored among Orthodox (and to a lesser extent Liberal) Jews worldwide. Some are actually enforced as civil laws in Israel. In Israel, a priest is not permitted to marry a divorcee or a convert to Judaism. Nowhere are shrimp kosher. If you are VERY observant, you do not "round the corners of your head" meaning you can cut your hair but you must leave unshorn your "earlocks" and beard. All true. All current.

Shaatnetz, the mixing of fabrics, applies only to linen and wool and my prayer shawl carries a certificate stating that it does not violate that commandment.

But two thousand years ago, the Rabbis figured out how to hedge the death penalty with so many restrictions that it is literally impossible to commit a death penalty crime. But who HASN'T been tempted to do in a surly teenager at one time or another?

Snowbird (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
Crow ... not fair:) You write a rant! I write a response but get side tracked ... now the rant is gone! That's no fun :(

This is really too much fun ... I need to find a hobby!

CrowJD (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
I decided against it. I didn't want to prolong this any longer. lol.

I've put out a needlework thread and a caricature thread. They get a handful of clicks.

Still, I will persist in trying to post things that do not bring anger to each side, as I was urged to above. It's hard for an old Yellow Journalism man to do that.

Someone has got to tend to circulation around here. David always helps with some posts. I urge Laticiaw to get on here, and post some new chats, and raise h e double hockey sticks with the rest of us.

Oh, I forgot my birdwatching post. :) The Society of Accounting-Birdwatchers has 4,500 members, and not one reply to the Amazing Lyrebird of Australia. Unbelievable.

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
Uh, I was talking about a guy that had been with a consenting adult..please tell me how we jumped to minors...that is a criminal offense and the church should not be covering that up in any way shape or form.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
In that case, it's simply a matter of his public agenda. If he had none, he'd have been left alone.

Laticiaw (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
Fred...look, I am not perfect. Point blank...i have gone against the ten commandments more than I'd really like to think about. Have I paid for that? Yes. And yes people have known me to stand up and defend the ten commandments. But they didn't look down on me when I screwed up. They understood that I was human. I got more acid from my church (to correct me) than from my unchurched friends (most of whom were relieved to see that I was human). I just wish those same people would do the same for this gentleman. There but for the Grace of God, go I. I don't have room to talk, I'm too busy taking care of the log in my own eye to worry about the the splinter in someone elses. I guess that is what I was trying to say.

Fsteincpa (talk|edits) said:

11 May 2010
If he were to relinquish his agenda driven hypocrisy, I would be happy to live and let live. You see, I am not the most religious of people, but I strongly believe in the golden rule. I also believe that one should not abuse authority and use their position of power to persecute people.

You can ask a million times, and a million times I will tell you that he deserves everything he is getting. He is nothing more than a bigoted hypocrite that is hiding behind a religious curtain.

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