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Discussion:Form 2210 - Delayed until Feb 22nd

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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Form 2210 - Delayed until Feb 22nd


Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 23, 2007
I'm working on the first return I've had with a Form 2210. The penalty is $37, and ProSeries is telling me that Form 2210 is non-final and won't be available to efile until 02/22. I have to efile all returns (Michigan requirement), and I really don't want to hold up a bunch of returns (that have this form) until Feb 22nd, but then I don't want the IRS to send separate bills for the penalties to my clients in a few months (which would still require filling out Form 2210).


I'm wondering how others will be handling this? Just go ahead and advise the clients their returns can't be efiled until 02/22?

Chautauqua (talk|edits) said:

23 January 2007
My Lacerte software tells me that the 2210 will be final January 30. February 22 sounds awful late....must be a mistake.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 23, 2007
ProSeries Pro is telling me 02/22 (when viewing Form 2210 in the program), but I just looked at the list that I get after updating products from within the program, and the date on that list is 01/30. I think 02/22 is an error in the program. I just looked at the date in the program again, to make sure I wasn't cross-eyed earlier, and it still says 02/22. Thanks!

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

23 January 2007
What happens if you check the block to permit IRS to calculate the penalty. If I recall the form does not accompany the filing. Of course, best warn your client they will get a bill, or could get a bill.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
If you check the box to permit the IRS to calculate the penalty, Form 2210 will still be in use. You're right, Form 2210 does not get filed in either case.


I just upgraded the program, and Form 2210 is delayed until 2/22, along with Form 4136 (I will have several of these, when the farmers come in) and a few other forms (3468, 3800, 8582-CR, 8606, 8881, 8903, 8915, 5884, 6765, 8845, and 8861)--all delayed until 2/22!


But Form 5695 can be efiled now. I just efiled one, and it worked fine.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
Well, the return with Form 5695 that I efiled a couple of hours ago has been rejected.

Code: 0151

Form: Summary Record

Line #: SUM

Description and Detail: Number of Logical Records in Tax Return must equal the total logical record count computed by the IRS.

ProSeries Pro allowed me to efile this return, and the IRS rejected it. So, now what?

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
Code 0151 is for Total Credits on Form 1040 and Form 5695, so obviously, the IRS is not accepting Form 5695 yet. Now I need to find out when they will accept them.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

24 January 2007
Thanks for being the guinea pig.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
You're welcome. Of course, I can find nothing about this on the IRS site. I even called my client this morning and gave him the good news that I was able to efile his return about a week earlier than I originally told him and to expect a direct deposit date of 02/02.


The list of forms provided by Intuit after upgrading today said that Form 5695 is final and EF ready!

AHH (talk|edits) said:

24 January 2007
My Proseries program gives me the same 2/22 date for Form 2210 and the other forms Deb listed. This is a serious problem....puts me behind right from the get-go. Is this a proseries problem or IRS problem?

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
Probably IRS, if you ask Intuit. It seems like there's always something to deal with every tax season, especially during January.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

24 January 2007
It seems to me that the 2210 is always one of the last approved, because we don't know the rate of interest from 1/15-4/15 until January.

AHH (talk|edits) said:

24 January 2007
I always anticipate some problem or another in Jan, HOWEVER, 2/22 is just way beyond reasonable. I'm sure the finger pointing gets passed around and around, Intuit, IRS, Congress, but bottom line....WE have to deal with our unpatient clients, and the statements like "Gee H&R is already filing returns, why can't you?"

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 24, 2007
Just called the IRS about this rejected Form 5695 problem. Was on the phone (and hold) for only about 25 minutes. She will call me back after she finds out the answer.

Z32 Twin Turbo (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Deback I just got the same error code on a client. They also are using Form 5695.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
I guess I must have posted her response in another discussion. Form 5695 can't be efiled until Feb 3rd, per the IRS.

Z32 Twin Turbo (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Thanks for the info

Tdoyle (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Hello everyone... Here's what I was able to find out about this:
  • The IRS has approved Form 5695 and is currently accepting it.
  • The IRS is not yet accepting Form 3800. If your 5695 is triggering a 3800, the ProSeries program should tell you that you can't send it yet.
  • The cause of all of this confusion is that there is currently a defect in the ProSeries program for Form 5695. If you try to efile with a 5695 you'll receive an error number 151 or 156. A more explanatory error message should be in place in the near future. They're also working on correcting the problem.

I hope this helps.


- Tim Doyle, TaxAlmanac Moderator - Talk to me 10:32, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Tim -
  • The IRS is not accepting Form 5695 until Feb 3rd, per Kim from the IRS. (Don't know whether to believe her or not, but that's what she told me a couple of days ago on the phone.)
  • Form 5695 does not tie into Form 3800 for 2006, so Form 5695 can't trigger a 3800 (unless there is a carryover to 2007, which might trigger a 3800 next year, but we won't know if 5695 carryovers will flow to 3800 until next year--and my client didn't have any carryover, but was rejected two days ago.)
  • I'll believe your last statement. There are other defects I've found, but some of those are defects that were in the program last year and in years before 2005. Whenever I've taken the time to type up a defect report to Intuit, Intuit almost always waits until the next year's program to fix the problems (except for the 1099-R worksheet problems that showed up in the 2005 program and are still in the 2006 program, and the city and state not being added to employers added to the employer database, which also started in 2005). I know I could report all of the defects in the other forum at the Intuit site, but I haven't had the time to do so yet. (I wish the Michigan program would not include property tax refunds in household income on Form MI-1040CR, though. The 2006 program finally accounts for property tax refunds but fails on that form.)

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
What a mess! I think this is one case where no one is blameless. I suspect IRS personnel are given a script to read unless Kim was in Andover where the efiles are processed. There's another discussion on the Board about NY State e-filing where Proseries says nothing need be signed, but NYS' website says opposite.


As a general comment, Proseries software for states that do not follow the Federal return must be examined almost every step of the way. And then two years ago, we had the fiasco of Delaware resident returns being wrong and being alerted in early April and they follow the Federal [Schedule A for Delaware was also eliminating local income taxes]. If you use Form 8814 for California non-residents, just try to go through the maze to remove the base tax on the second $850 from that return.


Don't get me started on the issue of PTPs and the Federal return. Three years ago I pointed this out and it still persists, preventing some from being efiled. Lord, we must love this software to put up with this.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
I called the e-Help (Practitioners Only) number at 1-866-255-0654 from a list of IRS Telephone Lines and Hours of Operation that I printed from the IRS site on 10/11/06--in case anyone else wants to call and talk to Kim.  :)

It is a mess this year....so many delays and other little annoyances that I thought would be fixed by now.

FSteinCPA (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Just a thought and was wondering how others do this. Whenever a client is in a penalty situation, I never include it on the tax return. I give the client the information as to what the penalty is so that they are aware of what will be coming.

I much prefer to test the fed and state internal control system to see if they even send a penalty notice.

Any drawbacks to this thought process?

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Yes, there are drawbacks, because in most cases (probably close to 100% of the time), the IRS will send your clients penalty bills a few months later. Then your clients will call you, asking you why they received bills from the IRS. I think it is best to just include the penalties and avoid future phone calls from clients. I also think it's an unnecessary inconvenience for the clients who have to deal with sending checks to the IRS in the future to pay the penalties.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Well, I have a problem in that the penalty notice says words like 'there is an error in the return.' and I am not fond of answering phone calls that begin "you made a mistake" for it takes so much time to explain that it is not really a penalty but rather a charge based on interest, blah blah blah for then they go into 'should I pay estimated tax?' and I tell them the answer, and sometimes send out vouchers and they do nothing. If I am going to let IRS send the notice, I will tell the client when I do the return. I am curious; have you tried this yet with efiling? I was not clear from Deb's answer above.


One thing: if I use annualization to reduce the penalty, I sometimes check the box to let IRS compute the regular penalty. This is not because I want to appear to be a hero when I get it reduced, but because often when I attach the 2210AI to the return, IRS ignores it.....only recognizing it when I sent it in again. Four times this year this happened even though it is the second page of the return and first page past the signature.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
If you check the box to let the IRS send the penalty bill, Form 2210 will still be in use (even though it doesn't print with the return), and that means you can't efile the return until 02/22. There's really no way to avoid this, because you can't override the penalty on the 1040, either.


In addition, I think it's a waste of time trying to explain to the clients what the penalty is and why they could expect to receive a bill from the IRS in the future. The majority of my clients have no clue what I'm talking about (and I usually try to talk using plain English), and if they do understand, they will still be puzzled a few months later when they receive the penalty bills. That's another reason why I just let the program calculate and include the penalty. Omitting the penalty is a good way to lose clients (see D&T's explanation above).

Tdoyle (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
This may or may not have any bearing on the late approval of these forms, but I remembered the following letter that was brought to our attention by User:PJLCPA last month:


Letter from Mark Everson, IRS commissioner, to Senator Baucus, December 5, 2006.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Tim - I didn't just read the entire letter (I read it last month), but I think it's referring to the extenders. My problem is that ProSeries Pro is not telling me that I can't efile when certain forms or extenders are included in any returns I've prepared. So, I'm having to pay more attention to items included on every tax return before I efile each return (extenders and Form 2210 so far), or ProSeries will either reject efiling the return when trying to transmit, or the return will be rejected by the IRS (in the case of Form 5695) after transmitted.

Kathyt (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
How can you find out what dates forms are expected to be released? I have several clients that want to e-file now; but they have form 8915 which is not final yet. Lacerete warns me that it is not final so I know I can't file the return yet, and it's not on the IRS website of forms yet. I know it's not a very common form unless you live on the gulf coast (I do) but I would like to be able to tell my clients some general idea of when it may be ready, does anybody know how I can find out?

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
I will add the proviso, Deb, that I only tell tax-sophisticated clients of a possible penalty, and then it is usually a small amount. I did have one this year where I submitted the 2210AI but told clients they might still get a bill. She called a month later to tell me how right I was, faxed the bill, and I found they had not credited the correct amount on the check I sent with the extension. Turned out, dumd David, in his rush to finish, put their check with the State of NJ extension, and the State check with the 4868, and both parties cashed them!

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Kathy - Final on 02/22 for Form 8915. You can find the dates in the window that pops up after you upgrade your program online. For ProSeries Pro (don't know about Lacerte), I get a list of text, listing all the forms and their status (Final, EF Ready -- or -- final on 2/22/07, EF on 02/22/07, etc).

Tdoyle (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
FYI: According to an IRS issued QuickAlert dated 1/16/07, the following forms cannot be e-filed until Feb. 3rd:
  • Form 3800
  • Form 8834
  • Form 8859
  • Form 8907

Also, Form 6765 cannot be e-filed and no date has been announced. I'm not sure why this information has not been issued in a more public manner.

- Tim Doyle, TaxAlmanac Moderator - Talk to me 14:31, 26 January 2007 (CST)

Kathyt (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Thanks for the info Deb, wow, that sure is late. I am going to have a lot of unhappy clients.

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 26, 2007
Same here, but with Form 2210 and not Form 8915. I'll also have several 4136s, which isn't available to efile until 02/22 (and that form requires 8453 to be mailed to the IRS with the 4136--which started last year, for some unknown reason).

Kathyt (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
I understand that the extenders would be late, but come on, what does the 8915 or the 2210 have to do with it? I don't remember such basic forms ever coming out this late.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
The 2210 depends on the interest rate for the 1st Quarter 2007; it has always been one of the last ready.

AHH (talk|edits) said:

26 January 2007
Deb, I efiled many 4136's and never mailed a 8453 last year. May be a gamble but I've yet to hear a complaint nor request from the IRS. It really puts me in a bind this year w/ commercial fishermen. Form not accepted until 2/22 and farmers and fishermen returns due 3/1. What the hay *&#@

Deback (talk|edits) said:

January 28, 2007
AHh - Last year, Form 8453 was required for the first few weeks (along with Form 4136) until whatever problem they had was fixed. I think it was an IRS delay, but I could be wrong. I had many of them on hold until about the middle of February or maybe around the 20th or so.

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