Discussion:When are breast implants not cosmetic elective surgery?
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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> When are breast implants not cosmetic elective surgery?
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> When are breast implants not cosmetic elective surgery?
Ken@seamann.com (talk|edits) said: | 14 February 2008 |
| Client had breast implants 18 years ago.
In car accident and implants burst, necessitating surgery @ a total cost of $8,000+. Surgeon gave her a receipt for this total amount. After talking with me, she went back to surgeon and asked for detailed explanation of the surgery so that we could write off the entire amt. He then got nervous & wrote a receipt for $3500 as the necessary amount, backing out the cost of removing scar tissue and replacing the implants. Can we deduct the full amount as necessary to get her back into the same condition she was in preceeding the accident? It was lifethreatening and necessary emergency surgery. Goes to show that we don't have to make this stuff up, life throws in its own twists & weird tales. KenS | |
| 14 February 2008 | |
| The entire $8,000 should be deductible under the "personal injury resulting from an accident or trauma" exception to the general disallowance rule. See Sec. 213(d)(9)(A). | |
| 14 February 2008 | |
9) Cosmetic surgery. -
(A) In general. - The term medical care does not include
cosmetic surgery or other similar procedures, unless the
surgery or procedure is necessary to ameliorate a deformity
arising from, or directly related to, a congenital abnormality,
a personal injury resulting from an accident or trauma, or
disfiguring disease.
| |
Ken@seamann.com (talk|edits) said: | 14 February 2008 |
| Yes
California | |
TaxNovice 1 (talk|edits) said: | 14 February 2008 |
| Since this is the result of a vehicle accident, is the insurance providers going to cover any of the cost? Client would could only claim any out of pocket cost. And if there is a settlement in the future client would have to report the settlement. | |
| 14 February 2008 | |
| Isn't it state law in CA that woman have to have implants? Just wondering.
TaxNovice - I believe Ken is asking about out-of-pocket costs. We also don't know the details of the accident and whether there will be any settlement. Tom | |
| February 14, 2008 | |
| I believe there are subsidies there, Tom, for the poor who can't afford them. | |
Ken@seamann.com (talk|edits) said: | 15 February 2008 |
| Free for all undocumented aliens under MediCal | |
| 15 February 2008 | |
| A little compassion here please. I notice all of you jokers are men. Aren't you afraid of karma - you might come back as a woman in the next life....either totally flat, or much more serious, a cancer survivor who had reconstruction. The original reason doesn't matter, her body is dealing with trauma now. | |
| 15 February 2008 | |
| HAHA, I can tell these guys really believe it when the lady says size don't matter. No need to wait for Karma. Not only is the lady covered, I'd take the second one also, in other words, if she needed a revamp as is often the case with advancing techniques. It's to return her to her original condition, and is not a cosmetic procedure. This is the kind of medical deduction you can take a chance on because the equity is on your side. I'm serious, no patience for the garbage most people try to slip thru, but this is an accident injury. Ken, I'd take it, she's merely returned to original condition (hate to speak of it as property, but she's covered on the medical deduction side too). | |
| 15 February 2008 | |
| She's not being returned to "original" condition, but pre-accident condition.
Her "original" condition was something entirely different. Her breast implants were purchased property not deductible as a medical expense. I could see if she was revamped to original condition, but I think the physicians nervousness with the amount of the bill tells a story here. I think this is property loss. But I don't think it would create an audit issue, either. The waters are too muddy. I don't think it is something an auditor would want to step in. I would feel comfortable arguing the "reasonableness and necessity" of the post accident surgery. | |
Ken@seamann.com (talk|edits) said: | 15 February 2008 |
| Cherry, I knew I could count on you!!!!!!!!
Not trying to be insensative to the women. I'll probably have a question about penile implants next week & they can chime in then. ;)) | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| Well, since you are counting on me, I did a little more research. Riley2 (above) refers to 213(d)(9)(A) which in fact delineates medical care from 213(d)(9)(B) cosmetic surgery. It sounds to me like your doctor applied the definitions outlined in the code to break down his bill. In light of the doctors concientious breakdown, I think you have your answer. | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| The taxpayer has been through medical trauma. How could this not be deductible as a medical expense? I am not even going to look it up. I would deduct it. If audited, I would defend the deduction, I would not back off. | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| I wouldn't have asked the doctor, but as a tax professionals we have an obligation to honestly complete the tax return using the facts presented to us. We can't change them to make the situation better for the taxpayer. We cannot make our own medical vs. cosmetic determination overruling the medical profession's expert opinion. Unless we have facts over and above the attending physician. | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| I have met some mean and abusive Revenue Officer's. Had one die on me in the middle of the aftermath of a large case audit where he was trying to drive this particular taxpayer off the face of the earth, and almost succeeded. I knew his daughter, I did not miss him. This guy was verbally abusive to everyone. He shot first and asked for names later. A Revenue Officer with an attitude.
I cannot remember a Revenue Agent, who in my opinion, would disallow a medical deduction for this kind of pain and suffering. I would take the deduction unless there is something in the Regs. that specifically says "you can't do this". I would fight for it. How could anyone say, anyone, that there is any element of cosmetic surgery involved in this cost? Surely the first surgery was cosmetic. However this one was anything but elective. Surgeons are tax idiots. They get a medical degree and think they know more about taxes than we do. Physicians and Attorneys make up a large percentage of collection cases. So much for good judgement about federal taxes. I for one would give little weight to the surgeons opinion of how the surgery could be allocated. The lady is lucky he did not sew his apron to her chest. | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| I am sure no one meant to be insensitive. But this question was a booby trap. | |
| 16 February 2008 | |
| take the deduction - whether or not the impants are damaged property or not is irrelevant. I don't think original condition here refers to her pre-impant state nor is it relevant to determine why she had the impants in the first place - it is quite possible that there were medical reasons for the implants. I believe that the bursting of an implant & the related medical issues resulting would be deductible as injury & medically necessary - even if there were no accident. | |


