Discussion:What constitutes a worthy question...and what doesn't?

I know I'll likely get flamed for this but, oh well, worse things have happened to me in my life. And I will likely get blacklisted but nothing ventured...I've always been accused of not being able to keep my mouth shut.

Seems that some questions here, even if from CPAs, EAs, etc., (which from all the comments on this topic is the group for whom this forum was designed) get snubbed while there are those here who spend hours each day quipping back and forth about insignificant gibberish.

Would someone please define for me what makes a question worthy of a reply, comment, answer, flame, etc.? I know I am not in the upper echelon of the tax practioner elite here. But there seems to be a clique that decides what topics/questions are worthy and which are not.

For example, a question will be asked. If a member of the noble and great ones blesses the question with a comment other than "You need to hire a local tax professional", others will then often join the fray, if warranted. (Obviously, if the correct answer is given to a question with a single reply, there is no need for others to join the chorus, although the "thumbs up/down" idea was discussed here just today.)

I guess if this question gets snubbed, I'll have my answer but I had to ask.

Flame on! Oh, great ones.

Some get nasty responses because they individually have asked the same question repeatedly. Example:

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Covenant_to_Not_Compete_Taxation followed by http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Selling_a_C-Corp_or_Asset followed by http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Discussion:Selling_a_C-Corp_or_Asset. Same question, same questioner, looking for different answer than had previously been given.

Some complicated questions are being asked by nonprofessionals that the best service anyone here can provide is to direct that person to the seek professional help because there is no way that they will understand all of the issues they are dealing with, yet alone the responses given here which are mostly off-the-cuff short answers.

Some questions are posted by individuals holding themselves out as professionals, but they have not taken the time to fill out a profile to allow the people here to evaluate their credentials. (Evaluation of credentials may well change the flavor of the responses given. No one here minds giving advice to someone just starting out in the profession and the response will be different than if the questioner is Riley (I'm not sure he has ever asked a question here, because if there is a great and noble tax god who frequents this forum, he is it - in a good sense) or Kevin, or JR or WesR, or Dennis, or..., or..., or...)

And, ultimately, because the people that frequent this forum are sinners, just like you and I, sometimes their responses simply reflect that fact.

But, having said all of that, I will agree with the issue you are raising here, namely, can't we all be a little more gracious to those who arrive at the door and are bold enough to step in?

But it's kind of like during tax season when your client calls you up and asks what the standard mileage rate is - and he is the 12th client to interrupt your preparation of difficult returns that actually take some thinking to ask that - how do you handle it? Well, at least with the client he is paying you.

So you might send out a newsletter to all of your clients telling them what the standard deduction is and what the mileage rate for business is this year. Or you post it on your website, or provide a link to the IRS website where these simple answers can be found. But then another client calls and asks what the mileage rate is. You wonder 'Did he get the newsletter? Can he not read? How did his call get through to me past the receptionist anyway? Even SHE knows the mileage rate. And ****, this client's a CPA and can't find the IRS website?'

Mr. Dugan hits it perfectly regarding repeat questions. At this laptop a groan goes out when I see 'S Corp salaries,' 'deductions for firemen,' or 'loss of deposit in real estate deal.' I think of Chekhov's character blurting out, "forty years of milling the wind. And what self-importance! What pretentiousness! he has retired, and not. a single living soul knows who he is....." Yet there are saints here, like JR who will answer almost any question in his area of knowledge.

I do have my biases. When I sense "I have a client" to mean an insurance man, investment advisor or the like dabbling in taxes, the hairs on my neck go up. I have one such person whose return I do, and he has sent me LLCs he has put together for real estate deals, but he won't listen. He elects S status for the real estate despite my warning that only bad will come of it. I always suspected he did returns on the side. This fall a woman called to ask me to do 4 years of S Corp returns for New Jersey. Seemed this genius did not know he had to file there. I thought the entire transaction itself would not pass audit and sent her the forms, telling her to get him to fill them in. My point is that dabblers take bread out of my mouth, and often they ruin my profession. The woman could not understand why Mr. G. did not do these returns. What could I say?

I also avoid certain people who simply argue after an answer is given, twisting the facts to make it come out their way. I can think of at least one professional who does this. Sometimes I also despair when I see people new to the business not learning anything after six months or a year. By that I mean that they can't even look up a publication at IRS.gov before asking a question. Even though publications are not authoritive, they do give a grounding. (I swear I have Publication 463 on 'speed dial.') These are those who seem to think software and this board are all they need.

I also bring the bias of my age, often avoiding questions about entity setups that seem Baroque to me, with their LLCs owing this and that. Somewhere along the way the concept of buying enough insurance went by the wayside.

I agree with you that sometimes interesting discussions are hijacked and turn into joke fests or kitten killing expeditions, so that even when the thread gets back on track there is so much verbiage to read one gets lost, but we are all human.

And yet with all this, sometimes magic happens and a discussion takes off. Here was a DIY question that illustrates this point, and delves into the question, "Who is a taxpayer?" Discussion: Help needed - living with girl friend and her kids Qualifying Child Note the way it begins small and ends with the 'Tax Gods' all joining in.....but no one called these people.

I am glad you brought this up.

Too hard. Many questions I don't know the answer off the top of my head. If I have the time and the question interests me, I may do the research to obtain the answer. But if I am busy, I'm not likely going to do that. But if the question has no relevance to my practice, why should I research it and give the answer for free. I may do that if it is another professional who asks for some assistance on an issue, but why should I do that for a nonprofessional. That is what people pay us to do.

This doesn't fall under the heading of a question being snubbed, but rather, a cause of flaming responses. Sometimes certain posters here give the same bad advice over and over, despite having been corrected on the issue more than once. There are certain participants to this forum that when they speak, I listen, because I know they know whereof they speak (I failed to list D&T or KatieJ above, so I will list them here.) There are other participants who cause my eyes to roll almost everytime they respond to a question. They shall go unnamed.

I love researching and will spend time doing it, but sometimes I have to cut and run because I can't spend all day at it. I also don't have the resources that others do. So, I will come here after researching my issue, ask my question and hopefully not get the proverbial eye roll.

I think the key to asking a question is making sure you have done some level of research, whether it be here or with RIA, CCH, Kleinrock (or whoever you use) and don't forget the IRS website. I do agree whole-heartedly with those who are annoyed at the "ask and answered questions." There are those who come here looking for a quick answer when they can easily spend five minutes online finding the answer, tie-up valuable time and board space.

I am running into some different situations recently that I, like Skhyatt, after doing research like to get some feedback. That's more to my point. However, in a post I mentioned many months ago, I went through a very difficult stretch which damaged my confidence and, as a one-man band, that can cause havoc on business, which it did. I am making good progress in regaining it and things are looking up. Sometimes posting a question here and knowing I did my homework right is a confidence builder and strengthens me. If I am off the mark, I find people's responses give me knowledge and insight I never thought of and so the next time this situations happens, I learn from it.

I agree some posts from those with professional credentials are very basic and are easily researched. And having been in Kevin's gunsight a couple of times, I know what you mean. However, not every CPA practices taxation. I happen to do tax, but I have a friend who only does technology consulting. He makes a darn good living setting up accounting operations for small companies. When he gets a tax question or someone wanting their return done, he sends them my way.

Which now leads me to wonder the following: Tim, I was perusing the site and wondered if we couldn't take the page:

http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/2006_Tax_Law_Changes_-_Inflation_Adjustments_and_Statutory_Changes

and make it more prominent? A lot of basic information is here and the potential to head off the "What's the standard mileage rate for 2007?" questions could be easily diffused.

Now I am off to see if I can come with a joke about: A CPA, an EA and a tax lawyer walk into a bar....

Tom

I rarely, if ever, come here with a question before I have done some research and Heaven forbid, at least searched the site for the question having been asked and answered. I don't like to ask questions that are considered simple for others but I am one that likes the assurance that I am at least headed in the right direction or is seeking a confirmation of what I believe to be the proper treatment given a set of facts. Admittedly, sometimes my questions are adminsitrative because the instructions for the form just do not seem to make sense or they make so much sense that something seems wrong (read too much into the matter). When things seem too easy I like to get that simple nod of the head. Or a response such as "while that may be true, have you considered....?"

Maybe an addition to the thumbs up/down idea could be a "Good Question but No Time Now to Help" or "Don't Know" button that will at least allow the poster to know that the question was at least considered. I know we can't have everthing. The fact that we have this site is incredible. And one shouldn't come here expesting another to do his research. I know we can see the number of views but all views and no response conjures up "that must have been a stupid question" in my mind.

And allow me to give props, we get some very good advice here and like others have referred to above, one need not make too many trips to the Almanac before s/he knows whose advice/guidance can be followed or at least considered and whose to stay away from.

Thanks again for all the comments...my faith has been renewed (or shall I say confirmed) and I think this will make all of us spend that couple extra minutes in order to find the answer ourselves rather than post for an easy solution to our issue.

I always wished I was a "code head" (it's what we called them back in the day) but never quite rose to that level...maybe one day?...........................nah.

94Nole

The CPA says ...

The EA says ...

and the lawyer ....

I guess this does favor the lawyer a little too much. lol.

I must say that it isn't the easy questions that I don't like. I like to answer those! What irks me are 'pros' who expect others to do even the most basic research for them. Many of the questions posed can be answered in five minutes of looking up the answer! And I usually refuse to do their research unless it's something really interesting. The topic of noncompetes yesterday was one that I did look at some info on, for I hadn't seen that before.

Something that Crow said above really sparks me, and I've been mulling it over the past few weeks. There seem to be two camps of knowledge: specific, technical, factual kind of knowledge. And what I'll call, big picture or theoretical knowledge. I'm real strong on the second and not so strong on the first. What's frustrating to me is that we test only for the first. What's the exemption amount for a couple, one over 65, one blind, two dogs and a cat which is not a dependent? Trying to memorize all this crap for the EA exam is pointless and doesn't help me in my application of knowledge. Understanding how S corps work and why and some of the case law behind them, etc...that's the stuff I like and think I'm at least decent at. But it isn't tested. So I much more enjoy the posts where there's some opportunity to interpret and apply things, think thru the issues, etc.

I think to be a CPA in public practice is particularly tough on anyone with less than 20 years of experience. The CPA exam review course I took said "The exam is like a river that is 100 miles wide, but only 3 feet deep." Being a relatively new (<10 years) CPA is like that. I know a little about a lot of things and a lot about a few things. I'd like to know more about tax return preparation. It's a huge and complex field. Not going to happen in a day. No one person is an expert in all of it.

The camaraderie here is delightful. It's fun to read about the dead kittens and other "insider" jokes. It's so easy to assume on a forum that everyone knows more than you do, or that any of your questions are going to be against the unwritten rules and subject you to the disdain of the regular crowd here.

Not necessarily so. I believe the motives of even the most vocal disdainers are just meant to encourage people to think on their own (perhaps I'm just naive).

It takes guts to ask a question in a public forum. Don't be afraid to post and please don't believe you are the only one who feels like this.

94nole: You are just wonderful for expressing this concern so well.

P.S. JR, I disagree with your second thought a bit. I've seen you use the wide angle and narrow focus many times, and I know you've calmed me down a few times as well (i.e. serve the client, get the return done). I was especially impressed with your statement prior to last tax season regarding getting the accounting right has a matter of professional pride, and not expediancy, if you remember that. D&T spans both camps, and shows that the purpose of this field should be focus on the client. I have really learned more from everyone than I could hope to contribute in return. The so-called flamer(s) (a prominent and superb EA-educator here may have that reputation), well, it's not deserved as I've seen this same person bend over backward for a rookie before. Solomon, KatieJ, Dennis (always surprising); I still think Riley might have a professorship hiding somewhere under his belt..lol... but it goes on and on. TxSrv with excellent IRS perscpective. I'd say to anyone coming here, stick around for a while, post your question at different times of day, and see "who's in"? A lot of factors.

and the bartender looks at all three and says:

"What? Is this some kind of joke?!"

Thank you, thank you! Shows at 8 and 10. Don't forget to tip your waiters and waitresses!

(I know, I know, it's as oldie...)

I really believe that we will have far fewer basic questions now that Tim has changed the 'ask a question' page to re-direct DIY'ers to another site and to try to protect this board for the use of professionals.

Flame ON:

So here is where I get lambasted: for holding a professional's feet to the fire. What is supposed to set the professional apart from the masses is the professionals ability to FIND the answer (for which he makes a living).

To me, this means doing some basic research myself. When I first started in this business, I got a client who had rentals, so I made it a point to read the pubs and instructions on rentals. Then I got a client who had a business, so I read the pub 334 and the instructions for Sch C and SE. Etc. When I got to an area that I couldn't understand the pubs or instructions (like representation or estates or in the beginning, even corporations), I would take a class - even if it meant paying airfare and hotel costs to attend a seminar on the other side of the country. I invested in some pricey research materials that made me sleepy every time I tried to find an answer. But I read the stuff anyway. And I kept taking classes so that I could help my clients and understand how to make sense of their transactions.

Today with the internet, there is a whole group of so-called professionals who haven't invested in their own basic education beyond passing an exam. Sure they get CPE every year - but to some people, it is the cheapest and easiest they can get, often at the last minute, just to fulfil their license requirement. And now that just about anything you would ever want to know is on the internet, they figure they can cut their library expense and cut their CPE expense even further. Especially if they find a board where they can ask a question and have it answered for free, instead of even having to use a search field or think for themselves.

Every time they get a quick answer to an easy to research question, their research skills go down a notch, and their dependence on others goes up a notch.

I want our profession to not get weak and lazy, but to stay strong and committed. So yes, I am guilty of a few flames directed toward a few people's feet.

And I will be the first to admit that my intentions aren't totally altruistic: I now make part of my income from teaching those same courses that I used to take as a participant (especially this time of year). So of course I want the classes to be full. If they aren't then maybe I'm not needed next year. But something that bothers me is when there is a class on a subject (and you know you get all the brochures from the many CPE companies and associations, so you know there are always classes on just about any topic you'd want) and only a couple dozen people show up. And then the very next day someone FROM THE SAME CITY AS WHERE THE CLASS WAS HELD asks a question that you know you spent 2 hours teaching, but this questioner didn't think it would be worth his time or money to bother taking a class (because they can always get a free answer on the internet).

Come on - if you've got clients with S corporations take an S Corp class or two. If you've got clients who die (or might some day), take a class or two on 1041s and 706es. If you've got clients with tax problems, take a class or two on representation. If you're not willing to get some basic education on these types of clients then DON'T ACCEPT THE ENGAGEMENT from them.

Flame off:

I found TaxAlmanac this past January when I was preparing a presentation on Charitable Remainder Trusts and I googled the term to see what information was out there. I found some very good info here: all the links to the code and regs; an article; and even a discussion or two. I'm sure if I asked a specific question on the topic it would have been answered AFTER I SHOWED THAT I HAD DONE SOME RESEARCH, but I would never expect someone to teach me, from Alpha to Omega, everything about the subject for free.

And yes, I have been known to hold several people's hands and lead them to their own knowledge here, especially if I felt that they have really been trying to understand a topic and have already done some homework on their own. I plan on continuing to help those who show some initiative and desire to learn, which is very different from just wanting an answer. quick. for free.

And the bartender says "What'll you have, boys?"

The CPA says: "What have you got that's 2 for 1?"

The EA says: "I'll have what he's having. No, not another. I'll have the free one."

and the attorney says "I'm not drinking, I'm working. - I get to bill two clients at once to watch them get drunk and listen to their stupid arguments."

and they start discussing the day the just had.

The CPA says: "I have a real ethical dilemma. I have a new client who wants me to make adjustments to his financial statements to show more revenue than he actually made last year. I don't know what to do?"

The EA says: "I have an ethical dilemma as well. A client wants me to add more expenses he can't prove on his tax return. I don't know what to do?"

The tax lawyer says: "That's nothing. I have an ethical dilemma as well. I had a new client come in today. An old lady about 80 years old. I charge her $200 an hour. She stays one hour and pays me in cash. She hands me brand new crisp $100 bills."

The CPA says, "So what's the big deal?"

The tax lawyer says: "Well, you see, because they were brand new $100 bills, another $100 bill was stuck to the back of each of the other $100 bills. She gave me $400!"

The EA says: "So, what's the dilemma?"

The tax lawyer looks at the two and whispers: "Should I tell my partners?"

Ba-dum-dum.

The CPA finishes and walks over to the sink to wash his hands. He then proceeds to dry his hands carefully. He uses paper towel after paper towel and ensures that every single spot of water on his hands is dried. Turning to other two, he says - "We are trained to be extremely thorough."

The EA finishes his task at the urinal and he proceeds to wash his hands. He uses a single paper and makes sure that he dries every drop of water from his hands using every available portion of the paper towel. He turns and says - "We are not only trained be extremely thorough but also trained to be extremely efficient."

The Tax Lawyer finishes and walks straight for the door, saying - "We learn not to piss on our hands."

Also, CrowJD, if you are really interested in the recipe, I am happy to give it to you or anyone else who wants it.

The CPA says: "What's the cheapest drink you have?" The bartender says, "A glass of Thunderbird wine." I'll take it," the CPA tells him.

The tax lawyer asks, "What's the next cheapest drink you have? The bartender says, "A bottle of beer." I'll take it, the tax lawyer tells him.

The EA walks up to the bar very confident. He orders four shots of the most expensive 30-year-old single malt Scotch whisky and downs them one after the other.

The bartender says, "You seem to be in a great hurry." The EA says, "You would be too if you had what I have."

The bartender asks, "What do you have?

The EA replies, "Fifty cents."

Thank you. You're a great crowd. I'll be here all week.

I keep drawing blanks, better at the pithy comeback than the formalized comedy....

The EA says, I don't use pencils now, see my Pentel? And while they argued, the tax attorney left with the barmaid.

"Your Tax guy's on the phone, Jeb. Says you can't deduct meals for your employer's convenience, or your work shoes. We owe another $1.200. You wanna talk to him?

"Be right down, Woman. $1,200 huh? I'll take the quick way."

Wonder who did the next keeper's taxes?

A lawyer, sitting nearby and overhearing the conversation, then says to the bartender, "You know, he's got you there. In the original offer, which constitutes a binding contract upon acceptance, there was no stipulation of remuneration."

The bartender was not impressed, but says to the guy, "Okay, you beat me for a drink. But don't ever let me catch you in here again."

The next day, same guy walks into the bar. Bartender says, "What the heck are you doing in here? I can't believe you've got the audacity to come back!"

The guy says, "What are you talking about? I've never been in this place in my life!" The bartender replies, "I'm very sorry, but this is uncanny. You must have a double."

To which the guy replies, "Thank you. Make it a scotch."

What is a tax attorney? A tax attorney is a person who is good with numbers but doesn't have enough personality to be an accountant.

How do you tell if you've got an extraverted accountant? He looks at your shoes instead.

The poor man finally kicked the bucket, keeling over at his desk. After the funeral, his fellow employees were avid to find out what was in that drawer, so they called a locksmith who came and opened it. Inside was one sheet of paper with four words on it:

                                      DEBIT LEFT  -  CREDIT RIGHT

Interviewer: "I've interviewed so many of you CPA's. None of you are any good. So I have just one question: What's 1 + 1?"

Me: "What do you want it to be?"

Interviewer: "You're hired!"