Discussion:Tax preparer letter for mortgage purposes
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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Tax preparer letter for mortgage purposes
| 24 January 2007 | |
| Hello all,
I am a relatively new tax preparer and I have been asked to write a letter saying that I have reviewed tax returns for mortgage purposes. Is there a template letter anywhere in the internet? Is there something that I should know? Can I even do that? I mean, I didn’t prepared those returns, the client wants me to say in the letter that she is a notary public according to the tax returns (she did them). Any thoughts? Last, how much would you charge for that? Thank you. | |
| January 24, 2007 | |
| Discussion:Requests from lendors for proof of self employment. This is different but maybe the same things apply. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| Your letter should say you REVIEWED the returns PROVIDED BY THE TAXPAYER and that the taxpayer reported self employement income as Notary Public on Schedule C for the years XXXX and XXXX. Lenders just want the letter for their files so they can check off a box on their due diligence. They don't seem to care how much (if any) the taxpayer actually made as a self-employed individual. Do charge for your time. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| I wouldn't say I reviewed any returns unless you actually did so as part of the filing process. To me, the term "review" has a specific meaning in the context of tax returns and could be construed to mean that you participated in the preparation. I'd simply state the facts...maybe something like "On Taxpayer's 1040 for the years XXXX and YYYY, the taxpayer filed a Schedule C reporting self employment income as a Notary Public." | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 25 January 2007 |
| I don't like 'review' either even in the context of tax returns. Maybe "Ms. SoandSo provided me with copies of tax returns she had prepared herself for tax years xxxx and xxxx. On these returns Ms. SoandSo reported self-employed notary income on Schedule C.' | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| My Professional Liability Insurance Company strongly advised me not to provide these "CPA Letters". They said to think about why the lender wants these. If the borrower defaults on the loan, the lender might try to recover from the CPA, claiming to be in privity of contract with the CPA. They suggest that you send the lender a copy of the tax return, with the client's permission, and with a whole letter saying the return was not audited, reviewed, verified, etc. Finally they suggest to educate the client that the responsibilty for underwriting a loan lies with the lender, not the CPA. I'm relatively new in the field, so maybe I'm naive about just taking the advice of the insurance company. Maybe you have to weigh the costs of alienating a great client. But my experience has been that existing client's aren't asking for these, only new ones, which I have no problem saying no to. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| Yes, it's funny that my clients never asked me for these, only non-clients. In this case, I already agreed so I think I’ll do that and probably it will be the first and last time.
Thank you so much for all the comments. I am going to include also a sentence saying that I didn’t prepare the returns and that I haven’t seen the supporting documents used to prepare them. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| The last thing the lender (mortgage broker) really wants is a copy of the Tax Return. They don't want to show that they are trying to loan $500K to someone who reports $5K in income. The reason why the letter is needed is that it is an unverified income loan. No W-2's need apply. Schedule C income only. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| That must be the reason, because I cannot find another one. | |
| 25 January 2007 | |
| I would not use wording like "certify", "verify", etc., but just a letter saying that you have prepared XX tax returns (if you did) and that he/she reported income as a YYYY in schedule C, seams to me harmless. I would never do a letter for anybody that I have not prepared his/her taxes and would never certify or verify without audit or review (which is not what they want) | |
TaxAssistCPA (talk|edits) said: | 10 August 2007 |
| These 'stated-income' loans are what keeps the sub-prime mortgage market in business. They are responsible for extending mortgages to people who have no possibility of keeping up with the payments for very long. It's why there are so many foreclosures. I did a couple of these CPA letters before I wized up! I never said anything that wasn't true, but it's what I didn't say that troubles me. Stay away from these if you can avoid them. | |
| 10 August 2007 | |
| I agree!!! I did a letter for a stated income client and I told the truth...they did not particularly like the truth. He was self employed then formed an S corp. W-2 wages were not adequate so they wanted me to verse it so that this is the same business he has held for several years. I stated such but my client then used my letter I sent via pdf to another broker, etc.
talk with your client about some planning for reduction of interest on credit card debt. usually they want these loans to consolidate...if it is for cash flow, then speak to them about cutting down on non necessary expenditures..... Just my two cents!! | |
| 10 August 2007 | |
| Below is my disclaimer:
Any use by you of this letter is solely a matter of your responsibility and judgment, and this letter is not intended to establish a client relationship with you nor is it intended to establish any obligation on my part to provide any future information to you with regard to Ms. Client." | |
| 11 August 2007 | |
| I now have a hard and fast rule against providing any such letters. I did it previously and there is NO benefit whatsoever to me. Simple advice to all. Don't do it. | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 11 August 2007 |
| I stopped doing these about six months ago. Haven't been asked for one in a couple of months. When the client panics (mortgage company usually asks for it 1-2 days before closing so the pressure is on), I explain to the client why the lender wants it (to be able to sue me) and then tell them the name of a lender that actually knows what he's doing. The bad lender usually then gets on the phone yelling at me (not a good way to get me to do something). I explain that I will not do the letter and have given the name of another lender to the client. All of a sudden (when they realize they're going to lose the loan), the "CPA letter" is no longer needed. | |
Actionbsns (talk|edits) said: | 11 August 2007 |
| We recently bought a lot to build a home, the lender wanted a CPA letter as well, it came early in the process and I was really expecting it. The loan is stated income, no doc, lenders often see sole proprietor or self employed as code for unemployed, even though I have been doing this for about 25 years now. The mortgage broker explained I do my own taxes and could provide my own letter if they really wanted one, they actually settled for copies of three years Schedule C's with all the numbers blacked out. Made them happy, and BTW, it's not a sub-prime loan and when construction is finished, won't roll over to one. | |
TaxAssistCPA (talk|edits) said: | 12 August 2007 |
| In my experience and most of my CPA friends, you are the exception to rule. Most, not all, stated income loans are sub-prime. I have plenty of Sch. C clients (or solo-shareholder S-corps) who provide tax returns to show their income histories.
The stated income loans I am talking about are people with Sch. C's with net income of a few thousand dollars who want the CPA letter to say they have been self-employed for two years - but no mention of their low income. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Does anyone know of actual court proceedings where lenders have gone after CPAs because of these letters, especially if the lender was successful?
I'm really wondering if the ruckus regarding these letters has been manufactured by jumpy insurance providers, or is it based in fact? The AICPA makes a great point about making it clear that the CPA is not establishing any client relationship with the lender, nor providing any attestation services to the lender. In any event, the disclaimer is important if you are going to provide these letters and there are certain sentences requested by the lenders that are obviously inappropriate for any CPA to make regarding the future use of unrestricted cash, future sales or profits or other crystal ball projections. The two times I've been asked to add these sentences, I've politely refused and heard nothing more about it. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Don't you read the business and financial markets news? If not, you aren't aware that even Countrywide, the largest mortgage lender in the country, has said to the SEC that they can't predict the effect on their financial health of the virtual crash in the subprime market. I'm incredulous that any lender would still be offering no doc loans. Given these circumstances, why would any preparer get involved in a lender's underwriting process? I know, the answer is to try to keep a client. But, the risk to the preparer has to be enormous. I don't know if there have been lawsuits over letters to lenders, but I think it's just too soon in the crash. -- Larry Hess, CPA | Albuquerque, NM | Talk to me | |
| August 12, 2007 | |
| Beth,
See Camico Impact - Summer 2007. Pages 5-6. In the case discussed on Page 7, the CPA unfortunately included an opinion of his client's financial condition. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Larry, I only read the business and financial markets news these days when I'm in the mood for a cheap thrill :) The probable effect of the subprime lending problem is a discussion unto itself. Personally, I think the crash will be somewhat softened by lenders renegotiating rates and terms.
Like many others, I have corporate clients with shareholders who have requested these letters. How am I supposed to just say no to these clients? I'll continue to provide these letters to existing corporate shareholder clients, but I'm very prudent with the verbiage. For instance, I've had lenders request a statement from me that the client has been self employed for two years. I realize their definition of "self-employed" differs from mine. My letter states: "To the best of my knowledge, Mr. Client has been employed by XYZ, Inc. for two years and is a shareholder in XYZ, Inc." The disclaimer follows. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Paul, are you sure the Camico article details are based on fact and not just illustrative?
I'm interested in any actual cases of CPAs being successfully sued for issuing comfort letters to lenders. I'm not saying it won't happen, but I just don't think there is one single actual court case. | |
| August 12, 2007 | |
| As far as I know, the Camico "War Stories" are actual cases.
The defaults have barely begun. And cases take a year or more to reach settlement. When the dust in the next 3-5 years, I am sure there will be many interesting cases. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Beth, don't be an ostrich. Then you'll also learn that most owners of home mortgages are investors in securitized mortgage obligations (i.e. bond-like instruments) such as hedge funds and the Chinese government. They have no contact with homeowners and could care less about individual defaults. The days are long gone when lenders, mainly local banks, originated mortgages and kept many in their own investment portfolios. The chances of homeowners being able to renegotiate are much less than they were in the past. -- Larry Hess, CPA | Albuquerque, NM | Talk to me | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| You say "ostrich" like it's a bad thing, Larry. | |
| 12 August 2007 | |
| Maybe you're kidding, but I don't want to take a chance. It's an expression that means don't bury your head in the sand. Or, don't ignore the real world. BTW, is that at the AZ Snow Bowl? | |
Michaelstar (talk|edits) said: | 12 August 2007 |
| BethAZ - while I have no personal knowledge of any courts cases in this situation - I for one do not want to be on the cutting edge of these kind of situations in my own CPA practice life. | |
| 13 August 2007 | |
| I do not have any specific examples of taxpreparers being sued for providing assurance in loan applications. The issue becomes that the loan issuer is requesting the letter to entangle a qualified person in the loan and provide an avenue for suit. I suggest researching this issue carefully. In regards to verifying self-employment, the applicant's business license should do that. I am aware that many CPAs (qualified to provide assurance related to financial statements) in Arizona, Colorado, and California are not providing any statements. Others are providing statements. I personally use this as a chargeable activity and have specific language stating that I am not providing assurance related to ability to pay back the loan. In addition, I specifically state that this letter in not intended to create a client relationship with the lender.
Beth: Great ski video. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 13 August 2007 |
| Here is a new one on this: I am being asked to confirm that a client retired in the year 2000 [she took an early buyout from a Fortune 100 company]. How does one confirm this except that since that date she has only had pension income from her employer. | |
| 13 August 2007 | |
| YOu tell the client to get a letter from the former employer. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 13 August 2007 |
| I already suggested such a course, and to copy me. These papers include a release etc etc and in this case, every year I have 1099Rs from the paying agent. Funny thing is that if she were employed, they would accept W-2 forms and pay stubs but apparently here, they do not want 1099Rs and pension stubs. | |
| 13 August 2007 | |
| How am I supposed to just say no to these clients? Uh...like this, no or like this NO or if needed, NO! | |
| August 13, 2007 | |
| D&T, Just state the facts. "Beginning in year 2000 and continuing through year 2006, Mrs. Smith included, as income, taxable distributions reported to her on a Form 1099R issued by XYZ Company Retirement Plan." | |


