Discussion:R&D credit consultants
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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> R&D credit consultants
| 6 February 2008 | |
| Does anyone have any experience with R&D credit consultants?
They appear to calculate previously unclaimed R&D credits, their fee being 10% of the refunds generated on amended returns, which they prepare. | |
PostingFromWork (talk|edits) said: | 7 February 2008 |
| In general, I don't think that anyone who works in taxes that charges a contingency fee based on the refunds they generate is credible. | |
Ksnoopytax (talk|edits) said: | 7 February 2008 |
| When I first joined my current cpa firm a few years ago, a client of ours had a very reputable firm in the area do an R&D tax credit study on their S-corp. They did ALOT of work documenting the new technologies and job descriptions, etc. After I started plugging the numbers into the tax return and then into the owners personal returns, of this huge credit, almost all of it was limited on the personal return due to general business credit limitations. It looked like they had some lacky at their firm plug in the numbers of the owner's personal return and of course is was all deductible but not on the true return I calculated. The other firm never admitted their error and our client never paid them the balance of the fees due.
Anyways, point being, from my limited experience so far, I would be very hesitant to recommend one to a client without doing extensive research on their situation myself. | |
Ksnoopytax (talk|edits) said: | 7 February 2008 |
| I don't know if I agree with that Posting. Just because you may know the law better than the schmo that did the tax return, and you say you can back it up, doesn't mean you aren't credible. | |
Taxstudent (talk|edits) said: | 7 February 2008 |
| I don't agree with Posting on the credibility issue, but I do have some experience with R&D consultants and some strong views on the subject, especially where contingent fees are concerned. I also agree with Ksnoopy's first comment wholeheartedly.
I wouldn't work with anyone who charges a contingent fee in the R&D credit realm. First, that is one of the reasons that the IRS made it a Tier 1 issue and why it is one of the top 10 problem areas the Service faces (along with transfer pricing, listed transactions, etc.). The Service is using "super IDRs" for LMSB R&D credit studies and the first question is invariably "Did you employ someone to calculate the credit and, if so, was it a contingent fee?" (You can find a copy of the super IDR on PwC's website for a presentation on the R&D credit they did last May (I think).) Contingent fee R&D tax credit studies were a good part of what led the Service to almost entirely eliminate them. Second, the ability to use contingent fees for firms that employ Circular 230 practitioners will be virtually eliminated after March. If they're still charging contingent fees it means: (1) they do not employ practitioners, (2) they're a sales organization and an unknown third party is doing the work (think privity of contract), or (3) they're going to ignore Circular 230. None of those are good situations. Third, what assurance do you have that the consultants will prepare the amended return correctly? R&D specialists that come out of the Big 4 or the specialized R&D tax credit consulting firms tend to have very limited general tax experience. Or they tend to have adequate general tax experience but limited R&D credit experience. (But that applies to any specialty area in tax, like M&E studies, cost segregation, section 199, etc.) Fourth, assuming you and your clients are not turned off by the contingent fees (or they can get the work done by March), how are the contingent fees structured? Is it based on the credit generated, for example, on an 1120S or is it based on the actual refunds on the Forms 1040? Do they require prepayment or is payment only due after the Service has accepted and paid the refunds? Fifth, what will your client get other than an amended return? How detailed is the audit trail and what kind of audit experience do the consultants have? If your client is LMSB, well, reputable sources indicate that roughly one-third or half of the LMSB agents are working on R&D credit refund claims right now. | |
R&DAdvisor (talk|edits) said: | 18 February 2008 |
| I have been specializing in the R&D credit for the last 12 years. 8 years with a Big 4 firm and 4 with firm I started. I have an R&D specialty firm that does NOT charge contingent fees. Flat fees only that include all audit support up to the appeals level. Additionally, we have developed web based R&D Tax Credit Software for CPA firms or companies to use to support R&D credit claims.
We have done several thousand R&D studies and have been through over a hundred R&D audits. I can say that most of the observations above about continget fee firms are true. We always advise shareholders of pass-through entities about their AMT situation. You should never find out that you have large carry-forward credits after an R&D study is complete. AMT limitations should be known and discussed before any R&D study is started. Let me know if you have any questions. I know all of the firms in the industry. We all pretty much know each other. Like any industry, you have the good, the bad, etc. | |


