Discussion:Question for New Clients & QB
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| 4 April 2007 | |
| If a new client wishes to finish their own QB and give you a backup of it, what do you guys normally charge? This would be the first client who's done their own bookkeeping. We have never charged by the hour, just by work thats been completed. I'd have to charge for reviewing the accuracy of the books and making sure everything is correct. I'm not a QB expert, so I'm figuring $65 an hr is ok? | |
| 4 April 2007 | |
| Also should I charge a min hr amount? say 2 hr min. for reviewing the whole year? | |
| 4 April 2007 | |
| I ask my clients to run a balance sheet and income statement. I ask them if they have reconciled the balance sheet accounts to outside reality (bank statements, loan statements) to try to get them to see that these numbers actually mean something. I ask them if they have any questions about what they've done. If not, and if there's nothing I see on the face of those statements, then I go with it.
If they give me their whole backup, I charge my normal rate for as long as it takes to figure out what they've done and if I'm comfortable with it. No discounts, I am busy. | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 5 April 2007 |
| I do several of these as subwork for a CPA. Get copies of the 12/31 bank statement(s) and loan statements. I compare the loan balances to the balance sheet. I compare the bank statement 12/31 balance to the reconcile amount under the Banking tab. Pull up last year's balance sheet and P&L. I don't review every entry. I look at the balance sheet and P&L for things that look "wierd". Wierd things on the P&L would be: COGS more than sales, no COGS when there should be, large amounts in auto expense (may include loan payments), large amounts in office supplies (may include computers), Miscellaneous expense more than 1% of sales. For the Balance Sheet, I look at the transaction list of everything that went through Fixed Assets (oil changes do not increase the value of the automobile, you cannot purchase a car for $1,000). Look for loans with a debit balance. Ascertain how they are handling credit cards; if they pay it off in full every month, ok to just write a check. If they carry a balance, needs to be reconciled like a checking account. Make sure they are running sales tax and payroll through the respective modules and not just writing a check (really messes up W-2's and 941's). And last but not least, my personal pet peeve, ANYTHING in Opening Balance Equity!! | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 5 April 2007 |
| Oops - forgot to give you a price/time estimate. I'd probably have a one hour minimum and would charge $60/hr. After the first one for each client, you'll determine if they know what they're doing. If they know what they're doing, you'll get it down to around 30-45 minutes of work each time. If they don't know what they're doing, you can sell training time. I've been charging $75/hr (but am considering raising it to $90) with a one hour minumum for training. I train in blocks of 2-3 hours because people can't retain much more than that. I'm in the Tampa area. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| BL What is wrong with having something in Opening Balance Equity? I always thought it was the account that was there as the original Retained Earinings...at least that is how we treat it in our office. I expect it to remain the same from year to year. I only start freaking if I see changes in the OBE from year to year, because I know that someone is "playing" with the books. I tell clients that after they set up their books, that is MY account...they don't touch it, they ignore it. I can change it if necessary (usually if they suddenly tell me of the petty cash account they have with no record of how the petty cash came into existance other than it's always been there...) but I am the only one.
I do several clients through the Accountants Review disk method and love it. I have the Accountants copy of QuickBooks and it saves me a LOT of time because I don't have to recreate the wheel in trial balances in Excel anymore. In fact even if I don't have an AR copy, I have been known to create the client file and run everything through there because it transfers so easily to ProSeries and LaCerte (yes we use both, ProSeries hasn't figured out that they need to do a DE pass through tax return yet, LaCerte has). So I don't look for balances in the OBE I look for changes to the balance that I know that it should be... | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| My rate is 50 an hour but I'm not sure because I don't do the actual billing -- one of the advantages and or pitfalls to working for someone else...I'm in Maryland on the Lower Eastern Shore (Delmarva Peninsula). | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| Lat - The Qbooks program uses opening balance equity as a dumping account when clients can't reconcile the bank statement. If they can't get the balance to zero and hit the enter key to reconcile ---the balance automatically goes to opening balance equity. I agree with BottomLine - opening balance equity indicates my client has no clue 1)how to balance the checkbook and 2) they must not be entering everything into Qbooks since they can't reconcile it due to unknown deposits or expenses....opening balance equity shows me there are problems. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| I don't do much work with QB, but I've learned thru hard experience to check that OBE. If something's in there, I let the client know right off that a higher fee in the beginning is be expected to get that worked out. If you're lucky, they have not been in business that long. Very good discussion on here I think in February and some of the pros suggested cash based clients just go with Qicken, and keep "A/R", fixed assets and other such items on something else. I'm beginning to think that is a very good idea for some businesses! | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| I see Open Balance Equity and I RUNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
try to find that account name in any accounting text book and I will buy you a steak dinner on 04/18/2007!!! I like BL's method, but I don't do the "misc. expense" Also check last year's P/L and B/S and mkae they haven't changed, esp. RE Good Luck! (note to self; doesn't matter what you charge , it's how much the client's pays) | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| I like having my clients on Quickbooks - I use it - I know it - and if the clients have a problem (or my assistant gets stuck) - I can answer the questions while I'm out on our boat!!! Priorities you know!!!!!
Having my clients all on the same program is simply convenient for me....despite the messes they can make in it! | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| Yep, the experts at Intuit need to consider something to make a dramatic warning: flashing red screen, siren etc (smiling) when a post will result in OBE. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| Hard to prevent it though if they want a "Quick Start" with the program during the year, and don't enter in everything. Ugh. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| One of the best things you can do for most clients is to set them up on Quicken (haven't tried Simple Start yet). It converts so easily to QB and although I still don't like QB I've gotten used to having to use it. Never, never, never OBE! I've found it extremely difficult to deal with and bill the time for the incredible messes that most people make with QB. If they would just realize that they are not (nor are their wives) bookkeepers and just use the checkbook that Quicken is it would make my job and my life so much easier. I am now working with a couple of QB 'experts' bookkeepers for my tax clients that really are not much better. I still say, if you don't have a good solid at least basic knowledge of accounting (for every debit there is a credit going somewhere) you're going to mess up QB every time. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| Good Morning: We use QB extensively and use it in the firm. I agree with BL.
Steps I usually use are these: 1. Ask if prior acct. entered last years ajes to PY to make sure QB balance sheet = PY tax return Schedule L... that is about the first thing I look at. 2. Then I look for obvious minusses in A/R & A/P. 3. Make sure financial is switched to cash or accrual as per tax return. 4. I look at OBE. It is important. If there is one or 2 small amounts sometimes I just adjust it to bank charges and move on - IF THE NANK IS RECONCILED. 5. If I see a bunch of junk in there thenj i know we have bigger issues. For tax I am at $130 to $150 an hour. My staff are at $80 to $90. For QB and accounting I am at $100 and my staff (CPA's are at the $80 to $90). We are all QB pro advisors - I pay for that if they don't have it already. Intuit has a large % of market so I help those people that think that if they can write a check they can do QB. If I see big messes I tell client upfront I want a BIG retainer and it is going to take extensive work... then extend for summer work. I also believe in value added billing. Have to get to the office. RD | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| Once again, QB's is good for the mom and pop places where the owners are taking care of the book, but any program where you can go back and change the original entry is not good <yes, it's convenient for those of us that know it, but still not good>. Just because we are comfortable using the program doesn't mean it's right for the client.
Controls controls controls. | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| So what do you do with the Retained Earnings when you first start up the account? That's where we have been letting the Equity fall because QB gives us a warning not to post to RE...I thought I was doing what I was supposed to do... I get clients up and running on QB and want to make sure that I'm doing it so that another accountant can't come in and say GLARING ERROR HERE!!! | |
| 5 April 2007 | |
| LJ, I tried "Simple Start". It is not designed for anything other than a sole prop. & a very small one at that. I would only recommend it for someone, maybe in Avon or something like that.
Dar | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 6 April 2007 |
| When it is a brand new company, there won't be any carry over Retained Earnings. I usually post any initial contribution in excess of Capital Stock to N/P - Owner. For an existing company where you are setting up the books on QB, go on and post the Retained Earnings into Retained Earnings. Since you are a professional, ignore the warning about not posting to Retained Earnings. When QB does its behind the scenes end of year closing, it posts NI to Retained Earnings. Sometimes you will also need to journal entry to Retained Earnings - for example to close out owners distributions at the end of each year.
I agree that I like having all my clients on the same program. I'm able to do about 90% of my telephone tech support while I'm driving because I know the program (and even the various years) so well. I'm also a Pro Advisor. The cost is not much more than the price of the software that I would buy each year anyway. Plus I get the tech support. Years ago also used it as a marketing tool. Not really taking any new clients now. I haven't taken any of the certification tests because I haven't had time and haven't needed it. Since I'm doing some restructuring of my practice (and my husband retires in 13 months and 24 days - yipee!!), I'll probably take the test this summer. | |
| 6 April 2007 | |
| Thanks BL -- will start doing that from now on. Employer is ProAdvisor, but guess who does the advising? | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 6 April 2007 |
| I rarely get impressed by someone's credentials be they MD, JD or CPA. Those are merely a starting point. | |
| 6 April 2007 | |
| But put EA after your name, now that really turns the clients on baby! :p
BL: Are you getting the spam from QB on the new Payroll changes they made in 07? It was six months after release that I received the first one, now I am getting one every two weeks. Example-->" BTW, WE CHANGED THE PR MODULE!" "IT'S GREAT, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW IT!" Sigh, I'm starting quarter filings next week... | |
Bottom Line (talk|edits) said: | 6 April 2007 |
| Not getting those spams - guess mine's too full of viagra and hoodia :). BTW I HATE the 2007 payroll changes - too many buttons to push (idiot guards) and then I have to push more buttons to get to the old copy of the check so I can see the actual numbers. Really hate the "Hourly Rate" column. First few times I went there I thought the computer had somehow changed the hourly rate from $12.00 to $40.00 before I finally figured out that that was the number of hours paid at the hourly rate.
I'm with you on payroll taxes. Giving a couple of extra days for income taxes shortened my payroll tax time by two days. April was hard enough as it was with trying to squeeze three weeks of a payroll tax month into two weeks. Now I'm having to squeeze 21 days worth of work into 12 days. I can't wait for May 1st. | |
