Discussion:Missionary living allowance - expense reimb or SE Income?
From TaxAlmanac
Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> Missionary living allowance - expense reimb or SE Income?
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Missionary living allowance - expense reimb or SE Income?
| 31 July 2008 | |
| Facts:
Taxpayer is working in Africa indefinitely as a missionary/professor at a Christian University. Moved to Africa in Jan 2007. A US 501(c)(3) that sponsors this University pays taxpayer an allowance for living expenses (approx 7500 in 2007). The taxpayer also received $2500 for living expenses from the University. After bona fide residency is established, the foreign income will qualify for the foreign income exclusion. Taxpayer is required to report the details of these expenses to the 501(c)(3). Questions: Can the funds received be treated as expense reimbursement under an accountable plan and therefore not be reportable on the tax return, or is this SE income? | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| Is the taxpayer required to account to his employer for the funds received? Is he required to return any amounts not substantiated? If the answer to either question is no, then this is not an accountable plan.
Also, wouldn't it be easier to qualify for Sec. 911 under the physical presence test? | |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 31 July 2008 |
| Taxable for Social Security. See Pub 517.
"OVERSEAS DUTY. Your net earnings from self-employment are determined without any foreign earned income exclusion or the foreign housing exclusion or deduction if you are a U.S. citizen or resident alien who is serving abroad and living in a foreign country." | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| Taxpayer won't meet physical presence test because they return to US each summer to fundraise for the tax exempt org. They also come home for almost a month at Christmas. Won't be on foreign soil for 330 days out of the year...
If taxpayer has an accountable plan and all funds received had business connection, meet the substantiation tests and excess amounts were required to be returned, then I can leave off the return, right? If not, funds received are reportable as SE income and we need to deduct all expenses that have a business connection, which in this case are travel, lodging and meals away from home while on fundraising trips,expenses incurred in connection with teaching, etc. and deduct on Sch C. Can any of the living expenses overseas be deducted? I'm guessing no. Just trying to keep client who only received 10K from paying 1500 in SE tax...any other suggestions? | |
| July 31, 2008 | |
| I'm assuming that a 4136 is not in play? To be exempt from SE? Realize that they have two years after starting a position to file it, and will have the same option at a later time when they change churches, etc. | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| This may end up being moot. Last two we sent over there (Piney Woods Baptist) got et, berled alive. We sent a third over to look for the other two, and he run off with some native girls, and was last seen hanging upside down naked from a tree and singing La Marseillaise. Don't get too excited about this until you see them back on American soil. We got to stop sending the young over to do grown men's work, and fight our own holy wars ourselves. | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| You don't mention if the missionary is an ordained minister entitled to a parsonage allowance. Some are, some aren't. | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| I do not know enough on the subject to take a missionary position. | |
| July 31, 2008 | |
| Ms, the issue was the SE tax...the income is low enough that there wouldn't be income tax anyway. | |
| 31 July 2008 | |
| We send 4 or 5 of 'em out now in the urban jungles of the good old U S of A; none of that Africa business for us anymore. I put 3 of our boys out in Henpeck, Ga. just last week, and it wernt an hour before they seen Rev. Swaggart circling the block a lookin' for sinners, uh, female sinners. Damn if our boys didn't put the fear of God inta him and were pretty tired out till who comes out the door of a a local saloon but Rev. Ted Haggard with some girl on his arm that looked suspiciouly like Kurt Cameron in drag, followed by 3 Catholic priests in good standing. So, there's plenty of savin' to be done here, instead of meddlin' in foreign affairs.
As far as Baptizing, we take a wholesale approach. I got a hot tub rigged up on the back of my Dodge Ram, and we git most of 'em fixed up in that. Now, for the repeat sinner, I'll take the air out of the shocks and go down an unpaved road, and if that don't wash the sin away, nothing will brother. Sometimes we do a jamboree, and I'll rent out a car wash and run several hundred thru. | |
| 1 August 2008 | |
| JR1...Thanks! After discussions with taxpayer, he was "ordained and commissioned" as a missionary. Looking at the instructions for Form 4136, I believe that the taxpayer has this option.
To complicate matters, taxpayer is a retired TX teacher who did not have SS tax withheld. Now we need to determine how paying SE and will affect future Social Security benefits since the Windfall Elimination Provision applies...always a new challenge... CrowJD & IRSfixer - y'all are makin' me laugh! | |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 1 August 2008 |
| I suggest:
http://www.taxalmanac.org/index.php/Market_Segment_Specialization_Program_Audit_Technique_Guides the one covering, you guessed it, ministers. | |
| August 1, 2008 | |
| The One Great Unanswered Question for my profession of all time is: If you come into ministry and opt out of SS on those earnings, will you still receive SS benefits on your prior career earnings? I have it answered both ways, and have not one thing definitive. Not that that should drive the decision on whether to file for exemption, but it does, esp. for older folks who go to the ministry. | |
| 1 August 2008 | |
| yes, the election out only applies to qualified ministerial services. Your SS taxes on prior or concurrent secular earnings will still qualify you for some level of benefit. See Church & Clergy Tax Guide by Richard Hammar, Ch. 9(C)(2)(9). | |
| August 1, 2008 | |
| Oh, Oly. Now what will I ponder in the dark of the night? Is that merely his opinion, or does he have something definitive? | |
RoyDaleOne (talk|edits) said: | 1 August 2008 |
| 1131.4 What income is covered by the exemption?
The exemption applies only to net earnings from the exercise of the ministry, in the exercise of the duties required by the religious order, or from the practice as a Christian Science practitioner. Once having filed a valid application for exemption, a minister, member, or practitioner cannot later acquire Social Security credit for earnings from these services. However, Social Security taxes will continue to be paid by any minister, member, or practitioner filing such a certificate on any other self-employment income or covered wages. Somewhat clear as to other covered earnings being taxed, which should result in earning benefits. | |
| August 1, 2008 | |
| Thank you Roy. I owe you the beverage of your choice in anything less than a 55 gal drum. | |
| 1 August 2008 | |
| And you NEVER offer me my beverage of choice JR...hehehe
Make mine a Banana Daquiri please :) | |
| August 1, 2008 | |
| Well, I'll have to create a New Great Unanswered Question then... | |


