Discussion:Estate return prep education
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Discussion Forum Index --> Basic Tax Questions --> Estate return prep education
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Estate return prep education
Scottycoyote (talk|edits) said: | 3 March 2008 |
| we are getting more and more requests to do estate tax returns. Just wondering if anyone could give me some good avenues for beginner estate return prep education. Also what range so you guys charge for estate returns. Im talking pretty straight forward stuff.....maybe some dividends and stock sales, house.......basic stuff. thanks | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Sounds like you are talking about Fiduciary Income Tax Returns. A good place to start would be PPC's 1041 Deskbook. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 3 March 2008 |
| Several CPE sources give courses such as 'administering an estate from beginning to end.' I think it good to know a probate attorney who you can bounce questions off. Pennsylvania and New Jersey have inheritance taxes separate from the Federal tax, and these, plus the 1041s, can bring in decent fees, without one being accused of practicing law. In fact, I have had lawyers send me this work, sometimes only the Fiduciary returns, and once or twice, very small estates. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Many Attorneys do the Estate Tax Returns themselves. I think they charge a percentage of the Estates assets. I have heard 2-3%. If the Attorney does not do Estate Tax Returns, then you may have difficulty getting support for legal issues that arise. Agree that PPC guide for 1041s is good. | |
Scottycoyote (talk|edits) said: | 3 March 2008 |
| yes sorry i meant 1041 fiduciary returns. I went to an estate planning seminar in atlanta year before last,and ive gone to a probate/will seminar, just trying to get some general concept stuff down.........now looking for the more hands on ins and outs stuff of the actual 1041. Ill check out ppc's guide thanks.
Dz, ive seen stock certificates left in the decedents name and sold that way before, receiving a 1099b in the decedent's ssn, or even in the estates ein#. I assumed this would have to make its way on the 1041 first. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Scotty, for the past 2 years I have taught such a class, but I am changing organizations this year. The classes exist, but you have to go to where the class is - they rarely come to you when you need them. Bottom Line even attended my class in Tampa last year, surprising me with a box of GIRL SCOUT COOKIES (THIN MINTS AT THAT!!!). What a nice person!!! | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| If sold after DOD, then 1041 for sure. Brokers should correct 1099s to reflect the EIN. Most will ask for the EIN when they have a decedent. | |
Scottycoyote (talk|edits) said: | 3 March 2008 |
| yeah kevin thats why i had to goto atlanta, it was the closest one and it was still 7 hours away. | |
| March 3, 2008 | |
| Kevin, when are you spilling the beans about your "new organization". I want on the mailing list for the classes. Need knowledge; will travel....hope your classes are in an area I want to visit anyway! | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| I am teaching a few hours on the subject (not a full day or two) for the NCSEA in Asheville this May. It won't be as in-depth as a 2 day class, but it is a good place for starters. | |
| March 3, 2008 | |
| I'll wait for the 2 day class....keep us posted, please. Asheville, NC? | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Estate 1041's can get complicated - must be coordinated with final 1040. Always have post-death income reported on decedent's ss# that should be on the 1041. Differing opinions as to what estate expenses are subject to the 2% floor. Saving grace is that audits of 1041's are extrememly rare. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| "Many Attorneys do the Estate Tax Returns themselves. I think they charge a percentage of the Estates assets. I have heard 2-3%"
SWEET JESUS! I need to raise my rates! | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Well, when you are valuing hard to value assets, asset values can vary widely. You really need someone who knows what they are doing. 2-3% can be a bargain in these circumstances. If all you have are pulblicly listed stocks, anyone can do a simple estate return. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| I think it would be far outside of an attorney's job classification to value assets (unless they had some sort of specialized training or credentials). I typically bring in business brokers and the like to perform the valuations you speak of and if/when it comes to audit, then I deal with the IRS. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Lancermc, that might have been an entire executor's fee. It is rather frowned upon for an attorney to be executor (not always, but usually). Most attorneys are not the executor of the estate. They would simply have hourly billings which might inlcude preparation of the 706. But there is no telling what the large firms are capable of. However, in the burbs, or for smaller shops, that would be a huge fee just for the return. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| I don't know what world you guys are living in -- attorneys try for 5% and learned a long time ago that they can bill me separately.♫ Attorney/Executor is specifically regulated in NY, but not all that uncommon. | |
| 3 March 2008 | |
| Yes dingodile, of course. I was not suggesting that the attorney do the valuation. For oil and gas and businesses there are specilaists that do that. However the experts are going to collect information to begin with from the return preparer. FMV for difficult to value assets can have a broad range, and at times there is precedent in rulings, law that assist in determining what is acceptable. The 2-3% was a few years back, and was what Houston law firms gave a client of mine who was shopping for help. I did the returns for about half of what they wanted. | |
Scottycoyote (talk|edits) said: | 4 March 2008 |
| yes thats all i mean is the simple returns.......some stock sales, maybe a house........nothing complicate like business interests are large assetts, etc | |
| 4 March 2008 | |
| H*ll, I have no idea what's going on now. Somewhere between $600.00 and $40,000.00 Scotty. | |
| 4 March 2008 | |
| Are you still huntin' for books? Go to ALI.org and get the Restatement Third of Trusts, and the Restatement Whatever for Property that covers Wills. That will help you know whether the lawyer knows what the heck he's doing (sometimes). There are zillions of tax books on the preparation of them, I'd imagine. Then, you got to learn all those funny little names the tax people have come up with for things. Many of them sound vaguely like digestive complaints. | |
| 4 March 2008 | |
| Strike that, the Restatement Second of Trusts, only a small portion of the 3rd restatement is done it appears. You will be able to dispute with the best of em, and understand your state law, if you swim around in these texts for a while. Maybe. You might be able to find some older copies around the dumpster at a local law school. Better yet, go in the library, and find one of those snooty types sleeping, and snag his copy. | |
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