Discussion:Culinary Student mandatory expense
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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> Culinary Student mandatory expense
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Culinary Student mandatory expense
| 17 January 2008 | |
| I have a client who goes to culinary school and has a fairly good scholarship which covers most of the tuition. He also has W-2 wages which allow him to provide more than half of his own support. He has a mandatory board fee, which covers meals as part of the cirriculum is preparing food and afterward they eat what they have prepared. Because it is a required course fee related to his degree, is this appropriate for an education credit? You can not take the courses without paying "board."
What do you think? Thanks | |
| 17 January 2008 | |
| Tuition only for education credit. No books, parking, meals, food fees. What does the school call that charge? | |
TheTinCook (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2008 |
| One could consider it lab fees. | |
Rgtaxservice (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2008 |
| You can consider it the taste testing part of the experiment.
Or an admin fee. | |
| 17 January 2008 | |
| Hunter07
IMO, given the new preparer penalty provisions of §6694, I would read §25A(f)(1)(C)before taking the credit. Call it what you want - but the fact is the student is paying for his meals. Nonacademic fees EVEN IF REQUIRED by the college do not qualify for the credit. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2008 |
| Any possibility he is working as a chef now? | |
TheTinCook (talk|edits) said: | 17 January 2008 |
| The pertinent part of §25A(f)(1)(C) is "...other expenses unrelated to an individual's academic course of instruction."
In the case of the culinary education, the food is directly related to the academic course of instruction. Also, the student has no option to not pay it if he wants to take the course, something that is not the case with the other expenses mentioned by name in that subsection (insurance, activity fees, and athletic fees). | |
| 17 January 2008 | |
| I thought the question was about the Education Credit. Not, deductions. | |
| 17 January 2008 | |
| According to pub 970, "..fees and expenses for course-related books, supplies and equipment are included in qualified education expneses only if the fees and expenses must be paid to the institution as a condition of enrollment or attendance.
If the money was paid to the school and was a condion of enrollment I don't see why it would not qualify. | |
| 17 January 2008 | |
| Board means two meals per instructional day.
This particular school has mandatory fees of tuition, board, "books, uniforms, supplies" (all one category), and a general fee. Yes, he is a chef. I am sure he is not in class every meal. §25A(f)(1)(A) says "The term “qualified tuition and related expenses” means tuition and fees required for the enrollment or attendance ...at an eligible educational institution for courses of instruction of such individual at such institution." (my italics) I am inclined to think that food is related to academics at a culinary school. One way to learn about food is to prepare and to eat food. I have never heard of mandatory board outside of culinary school. I think I am talking myself into this. | |
| 18 January 2008 | |
| Is paying for and then eating your food a personal expense???? That's the question you need to answer.
Look at Reg 1.25A-2(d). I'll only paste a portion of it (CAPS added)though you should read the entire document to make sure my snip is not biased. IMO paragraph (d)(3) is damaging to your "talking yourself into it". (d)(2) Required fees. (i) In general. EXCEPT as provided in paragraph (d)(3) of this section, the test for determining whether any fee is a qualified tuition and related expense is whether the fee is required to be paid to the eligible educational institution as a condition of the student's enrollment or attendance at the institution. (ii) Books, supplies, and equipment. Qualified tuition and related expenses include fees for books, supplies, and equipment used in a course of study only if the fees must be paid to the eligible educational institution for the enrollment or attendance of the student at the institution. (iii) Nonacademic fees. Except as provided in paragraph (d)(3) of this section, qualified tuition and related expenses include fees charged by an eligible educational institution that are not used directly for, or allocated to, an academic course of instruction only if the fee must be paid to the eligible educational institution for the enrollment or attendance of the student at the institution. (3) Personal expenses. Qualified tuition and related expenses do not include the costs of room and board, insurance, medical expenses (including student health fees), transportation, and similar personal, living, or family expenses, REGARDLESS of whether the fee MUST BE PAID to the eligible educational institution for the enrollment or attendance of the student at the institution. | |
| 18 January 2008 | |
| Thanks for the site NYEA. But I do not think that in this case the expenses are personal. Food and or meals are usually personal except for chefs restaurant owners and perhaps some others in the food industry - since in their case it is for their profession. Thus I believe they should be allowed for either business expense or educational as appropriate. Could be wrong but makes sense to me. For wine salesman, wine makers and I suppose even vineyard owners, wine is a professional expense, not necessarily a personal or entertainment expense. | |
| 18 January 2008 | |
| NYEA Thanks for the information. From your citation, it is pretty clear that board is a no. | |
