Discussion:Business Entity Selection for Personal Investments

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Discussion Forum Index --> Basic Tax Questions --> Business Entity Selection for Personal Investments
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Business Entity Selection for Personal Investments

JimDavidson23 (talk|edits) said:

11 December 2007
I'm working with someone who has grown their stock and option investments to the point that they want to create holding business entity for them for personal liability concerns and possible tax advantages. I would like to hear others thoughts on whether an LLC or C corp would be best in this scenario. The entity will maintain stock, currency, and commodities brokerage accounts but will have minimal expenses other than periodical and newsletter subscriptions. There is no office space, etc. involved.

The owner is growing the assets and not taking regular distributions of income from them. Would the possibly lower tax rate of a corporation allow the money to compound faster? Assuming a great rate of return would that offset the disadvantages of double taxation when the owner takes distributions down the road?

Would all of the investments have to be liquidated, moved into the company, and then repurchased; or could the owner transfer them to the company as a loan? In the case a single-owner LLC could they just be moved into the name of the LLC?

Thank you

JR1 (talk|edits) said:

December 11, 2007
LLC. A ccorp exposes you to personal holding co rules. Just no point in having a corp to do this. In fact, a single member LLC would be disregarded, so no tax changes.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

11 December 2007
Are they married? Children? Never too early to start thinking about divesting assets.

JimDavidson23 (talk|edits) said:

11 December 2007
Thanks for the replies.

JR1 - So having the investments transfered into the LLC name would not count as a taxable sale?

Death&Taxes - The client is newly married without any children.

TxSrv (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
I don't understand why we need, or how we would obtain, personal liability protection here.

Irsfixer (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
A C Corp pays capital gains tax at its regular corporate rates.

Pegoo (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
I'm with TxSrv, I don't see any need either. They are all investments. Will those investments bite people that walk by? Tehe

JimDavidson23 (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
It's called asset protection and protecting yourself from a lawsuit.

Kathyt (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
What kind of a lawsuit? As Pegoo said, it's unlikely that the investments bite people that walk by. Thanks Pegoo, I needed a laugh.

As IRSfixer said, C corp is a bad idea because of the capital gains tax, no break on a corp return, it's all taxed at corporate rates. And a single memeber LLC will have no tax advantage as it's a disregarded entity. A multi-member LLC taxed as a partnership or S-corp will flow through to the personal return. I see no tax advantage to doing this. Just a bigger tax preparation bill to save nothing in taxes.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
I think Jim is worried about taxation when retitling the assets in the name of the SMLLC. I can't see any problem here unless a brokerage firm somehow sold the assets and then bought them anew.

Kevinh5 (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
This is a question of law, not of tax. The taxpayer needs to speak with a lawyer about "asset protection trusts" and find out about the protection of annuities and life insurance in his state. States differ, so this is a state specific question. Generally, even the C corp could get sued for the investments biting somoeone.

Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
"The owner is growing the assets" I love that expression; makes me think of his client watering, weeding and fertilizing his portfolio.

I agree with you Kevin, but he did ask the question I answered in his second post.

JimDavidson23 (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
Kevinh5 - Thank you. Indeed this is mostly a law question. While I was concerned about tax, it appears that if the brokerage can just retitle the assets then that will not be a problem (thank you Death&Taxes). I will advise the client to meet with myself and a lawyer to talk through this and discuss LLCs and asset protection trusts.

I'm shocked by the laughter here regarding "the investments biting someone". The client has grown his assets to a sizable position and anyone who even walks by his house and trips on the sidewalk could sue him for everything he has, not to even mention lawsuits that might come about through his other business interests or even a car wreak. The same could happen to me and you as well. That's why we have limited liability entities in the first place. I just wish I knew more about which entities are best for which circumstances. Unfortunately, all the books out there on this topic do a decent job of describing what each entity is but fail miserably as describing which one is best for different scenarios.

Thanks for all the responses

Irsfixer (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
A general liability policy with a large umbrella may well be cheaper than all the organizational costs, ongoing accounting fees and perhaps disavantaged tax positions.

Dingodile (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
Jim - I think you're a little confused here. Yes, we are all vulnerable to a myriad of possibilities that could form the basis for a lawsuit against us and could possibly cost us everything.

However, placing your clients assets (stocks, currency and commodities) into an LLC, Corp. or LP will not insulate or protect those assets if your client is the owner of the entity. Ultimately, his interest in the holding company could be just as reachable as the individual brokerage accounts. There is no benefit to placing an asset into an entity, unless the asset itself could potential do harm and cause a lawsuit. That's why people have commented about "the investments biting someone."

Kevin and Irsfixer are correct in that insurance, most likely a large umbrella policy is the most appropriate strategy to protect your client's assets.

Kathyt (talk|edits) said:

12 December 2007
Sorry I did not mean to offend, I just thought it was funny. The reason I thought it was funny is because when I think of setting up an entity for liability reasons, I think of the entity being sued, and I couldn't think of any reason why this type of entity could be sued. I am not an attorney so maybe I'm missing something here but it's like Dingodile said, I think his interest in this company would be just as reachable as the holding accounts. It seems to me that if a person is being sued and he owns stock in Walmart or a membership interest in an LLC that owns stock in walmart, it seems like either way it would be reachable.
I do have clients that set up rental property in LLC's for the reason you stated, but in that case the LLC (rental) could possibly be sued, so from what I understand only the LLC assets would be at risk in that case.

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