Discussion:Audit TP not tax return
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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Audit TP not tax return
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 14 August 2008 |
| To give you some background: I have a client whose 2004 and 2005 returns were examined. We are currenlty taking the unagreed issues to appellate, but now the 2006 and 2007 returns are also under examination. My firm did not prepare 2004 and 2005, just fyi. We did prepare 2006 and 2007 though. I phoned the RA to reschedule the exam as I do not believe we will be fully prepared by said date. The RA told me that they do not "audit the tax return, they audit the Taxpayer", and she was more interested in meeting and interviewing my client. I do have POA, and will attend, but I would like some feedback, has anyone else had a similar issue? If so, how did you handle it? I can not find any research or case law that states the RA can require the TP to attend without supeona. Please correct me if I am wrong, and any help/info would be greatly appreciated. Thank you! | |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 14 August 2008 |
| Thanks! | |
Kmikeburns (talk|edits) said: | 14 August 2008 |
| I just went through a similar situation with collections.
The agent was INSISTING that she meet with the taxpayers. She even showed up at their house. This was in the Phoenix office. I wonder if the agent I was dealing with transferred to audits. Then two weeks ago I had an audit and had no problem with the fact that the auditor came to my office. Since we are both in Arizona I would be interested in being kept up on how the auditor handles this. Thanks | |
| 14 August 2008 | |
| [all things are searchable via the yellow box]
| |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 15 August 2008 |
| Thank you Kevinh5! I will keep that in mind and always look for the yellow box! :) | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 15 August 2008 |
| But as someone has pointed out, you should know all the answers to be able to speak for the client without the client being there.
Could they not wait until the first two years are settled? Are the issues repetitive? | |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 18 August 2008 |
| Regarding the 2006 and 2007 audits, the TP provided my firm with P&L's to use on the Sch C and Sch E's. The auditor is requesting all receitps, bank statements, duplicate dep slips, etc, to substantiate the P&L's used to prepare the returns. So, yes, I can speak for the client, and I can provide the copies of receipts, etc the client provides me. I just thought it was very interesting the auditor seemed so interested in actually meeting my client.
I agree with your questioning the fact that the IRS didn't wait until the first 2 years are settled. I found that interesting as well. Yes, the issues are repetitive, lots of expenses to offset income, a real estate investor who took advantage of the market when it was hot, and is feeling the pain now that it is cold. Rental properties sitting empty, very little commissions coming in now, etc. I was just very surprised with the auditor's great interest in meeting my client face to face, and wanted some input from others to see if anyone else had the same experience. I do appreciate all of the feedback. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 August 2008 |
| I can't put a finger on it, but seems to me this started sometime in the late 80's and the 'graduates' of that class of auditors. I had one then who insisted on "looking the taxpayer in the eye' as he put it, or another who showed up at my client's thrift shop and realized she could not understand a word he was saying [first generation Polish]. Client never sent me the audit letter and thought she was PA Sales Tax. She called and asked that I get a POA.
Of course, you must understand this was Philadelphia at a time when local IRS had been rocked by the Albert Nipon scandal, so perhaps this was a reaction to it. http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954471,00.html | |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 18 August 2008 |
| Very interesting.... The auditor did make this comment while on the phone with me, "I want to meet (the client) to get to know him/her." That threw me, and put up huge red flags on my part. Too bad my client is not first generation Polish! :) Thanks for the link to the article, good reading! | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 August 2008 |
| One IRS bigwig would be on the dais of the annual PAICPA tax seminar every year and the speakers would always joke that "You fudge the books and Irv will get you," but they got Irv in the end. | |
| 19 August 2008 | |
| if you do a search, you will find many experienced practitioner's advice to NEVER take a client to the IRS, and NEVER let the IRS interview your client. Ignore this advice at your own risk, or better yet, disengage and refer them to a practitioner who won't ignore this advice. | |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 19 August 2008 |
| Kevinh5,
I do not plan to "disengage and refer them to a practitioner who won't ignore this advice". I do not plan on "ignoring" the advice I received, although my original thoughts were to keep the client away from the auditor anyway. I was simply surprised at the response, and her extreme interest in meeting my client. I have not had this experience previously, and was requesting feedback from other professionals, as to whether or not they also had a similar experience. I thought this forum was to engage in professional discussions, and if I am mistaken, my apologies to all. | |
| 19 August 2008 | |
| that is the purpose of this forum, and this was the professional discussion you got
or I could have been nice and let others lambast you with harsher words. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 19 August 2008 |
| But I would say "never say never" for I posted a story at Discussion: Audit for 2004, 2005 and 2006 IRM? where my choice was either the client or a Berlitz teacher to translate. I also took a minister to a pre-trial conference and he blew the Appellate Officer out of the water with his name dropping. On the other hand, that Inge, the Deutsch lady, set the audit back an hour when she played a loose cannon on a large write off for a non-business bad debt, saying the judge in the case told her she won. What she won was preferred creditor status; the man still had no money but it took time to straighten it out.
The loose cannon factor to me is more a reason to keep them away than their fear of IRS. When I asked a client about a lease transaction in a tax shelter, he explained it to me this way: "Sid and I would meet once a year and swap checks." At that point I knew we needed to settle without a trial. | |
| 20 August 2008 | |
| State residency auditors always want to meet the client, for the same reasons that I, as a consultant, also want to -- to get the whole picture. Sometimes this works well.
I had a client who was a pretty famous football player and a handsome guy with a way with women. The auditor was a lady in her 50s who had long, straight, graying hair -- long enough to sit on. (Made me think of Agnes Gooch in "Auntie Mame" -- "But, Mrs. Burnside, I can SIT on my hair!" "Now why in the world would anybody want to do a thing like that!" snaps Mame.) My client took one look at her and exclaimed admiringly, "You know, my 7-year-old daughter would KILL for your hair!" After that he had her in the palm of his hand. She gave us everything she possibly could and a couple of things she probably had trouble justifying. | |
Btemerowski (talk|edits) said: | 20 August 2008 |
| Valid point KatieJ. Thank you. | |


