Discussion:Allowed or allowable after miscalculation and 2% haircut??
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Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> Allowed or allowable after miscalculation and 2% haircut??
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| Surf's up!
Here's a head-scratcher. A salesman/employee has a home office. It satisfies all the criteria to be deductible. But in computing depreciation on the office portion of his home the taxpayer miscalculates and slightly understates the Section 167 deduction on his Form 4562 and carries the mistake over to his Form 2106 and then to his Schedule A. But the deduction for his Miscellaneous Itemized Deductions is subject to the 2%-of-AGI haircut and he ends up deducting even less than what he calculated as his depreciation. Let's put up some numbers. His [mis]calculated depreciation was $145 but it should have been $160, and his actual deduction for Miscellaneous Itemized Deductions ended up being only $95, after his 2% screwing. Here's the question: How much was his "allowed or allowable" depreciation for the year? | |
Southparkcpa (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| Harry
Don't know off the top of my head but here's a thought. 14 views to this point and no one has told you to amend??? You know, this is material stuff we are talking about. (lol) This forum has come a LONG way. (lol) | |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
You know, this is material stuff we are talking about. (lol)
As my tax prof was reputed to have said, "Just add zeroes until it starts to get your attention." These dollar amounts are merely illustrative and their materiality or lack thereof may be ignored at the reader's discretion. This forum has come a LONG way. (lol) And the farther it comes, the farther it has yet to go! The kitchen is right close here. Time for a PBR? | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| While it's a different theory, could you use this example from Publication 525 concerning recoveries? Substitute the word 'deduction' for recovery.
"If you are not required to include all of your recoveries in your income, and you have both a state income tax refund and other itemized deduction recoveries, you must allocate the taxable recoveries between the state income tax refund you report on Form 1040, line 10 (Form 1040NR, line 11), and the amount you report as other income on Form 1040, line 21 (Form 1040NR, line 21). If you do not use Worksheet 2, make the allocation as follows. Divide your state income tax refund by the total of all your itemized deduction recoveries. Multiply the amount of taxable recoveries by the percentage in (1). This is the amount you report as a state income tax refund. Subtract the result in (2) above from the amount of taxable recoveries. This is the amount you report as other income." Before you open your PBR and chuckle, I have three clients who are trainers of MLB teams. They pay horrendous union dues and assessments, but every 4-5 years are refunded a good percentage of the assessments. I spoke to an IRS specialist in Washington ten years ago when I did my first one [in addition, with these guys you must see how much of the deduction was lost to AMT] and his suggestion was to recalculate the original return without the deduction and come up with the tax benefit that way. | |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| I would *never* chuckle with a PBR in my hand, D&T. I would roar with appreciation for your professional attention to this question. But, alas, this Publication 525 solution requires *division* and *multiplication* and I can only add and subtract before noon. And as for recomputing tax returns "with-and-without" deductions and recoveries, etc., you'll recall that my tax prep technology involves a slightly dull #2 pencil and a very sharp "Big Pink" eraser. Multiple versions of a return are quite onerous.
[Parenthetically, as an aside, the resources that IRS has pissed away in deciding how to (and then in explaining how to) divide a "tax benefit recovery" of two items between two different lines on page one of Form 1040 - if, indeed, that's what they've explained here - is appalling. I'm appalled. Also, have you seen how much time and effort they put into explaining how to compute the part of a state tax overpayment/recovery that is a taxable benefit when the overpayment/recovery comes from *more than one* tax year? Un-eff-ing-believable!] But back to the question: I'm thinking that the depreciation allowed or allowable on this taxpayer's home office is either the greater or the lesser of two or maybe three different arithmetic combinations of $145, $160, and $95. I mean, what *other* numbers do we have to work with? This should be child's play for any experienced tax professional with a PBR in his hand... Maybe we should have a multiple choice, show-your-work, pop quiz. And a prize, like maybe 400 empty Pabst cans. Ya thinking more people would be trying the quizzer if there was a prize? | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| In theory this question would never come up until the day the asset was sold or abandonded, at which time you would notice you had 'screwed' the taxpayer out of some depreciation and then you would use that Revenue Procedure [ask the Yellow Box] to make amends....but your question intrigues me because I have as clients about 20 members of a symphony orchestra, most of whom have expensive instruments which are sold at times. They also have deductions like union dues, instrument insurance, scores andrepairs and maintenance. Yet if there is a sale, I wonder if they had full advantage of depreciation every year [and of course, with these people, there are often AMT issues too]. | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| And by the way, how about that 'first mile' question. If I compute my 'home office' just so I can deduct my first mile, and that total exceeds the 2% by $180, all from my home office depreciation calculation, do I later have to give back that depreciation and how much of it? | |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| D&T, who am I to play in your little screenplay? Am I Harry-the-taxpayer's-motivated-enlightened-and-bulldogish-advocate, or am I Harry-the-undertrained-and-undermotivated-IRS-auditor-who-only-wants-to-go-home and have dinner?
And what do you mean "give back" the depreciation? There's (1) basis reduction, and there's (2) unrecaptured Section 1250 gain, and there's (3) "non-excludible-gain-from-depreciation" under the Section 121 rules. Do you want an answer for *each* one? Or will some mushy "subject to recapture" satisfy you? Refrigpbrerator, f'sure. | |
Harry Boscoe (talk|edits) said: | 18 October 2009 |
| Furthermore, D&T, you are right on target about the "first mile" application of this little side calculation about allowed or allowable... If Neil wants to ignore his home office deductions "by electing" not to claim them, is he still having "allowed or allowable" depreciation and is he later taxable on it because he *elected* to ignore those deductions, which include depreciation, allowed or allowable depreciation? | |


