Discussion:83b election - Did the IRS get it?
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Discussion Forum Index --> Advanced Tax Questions --> 83b election - Did the IRS get it?
Discussion Forum Index --> Tax Questions --> 83b election - Did the IRS get it?
| 2 July 2008 | |
| What happens, theoretically of course, if it is lost in the post? And it wasn't returned to sender either (so the TP doesn't know it was lost)?
The IRS doesn't send acknowledgements that the 83b election was recieved. The 83b elections aren't tracked to the TP's IRS accounts. What is the system the IRS using to keep track of these elections? Does anyone know if the IRS stores and keeps track of these elections, and if so, what methodology they use to link to that TP's tax return in the year of aquisition? ...the year of sale? If it were lost in the post unbeknownst to the taxpayer, and the taxpayer acted on the situation (filed tax returns as if the IRS had recieved the notification), then can anyone imagine a scenario where the fact that the form wasn't recieved by the IRS could ever come to light? I ask because earlier this year there was a postal strike in the UK, and one of my clients had sent me an urgent (NOT an 83b election!) which I recieved three months later. I know some people sent stuff by post that was never delivered to anyone. It got me to wondering what might have happened to another client of mine who filed an 83b election during the postal strike. | |
| 2 July 2008 | |
| Excellent question. I've often wondered where all those elections go when they are sent in, and whether a permanent record is kept of them, or whether they're even picked up. My feeling has been that the TP better keep a list of all the ones he makes, copies of everything, etc. \\ Anyone? Former IRS people? | |
Death&Taxes (talk|edits) said: | 3 July 2008 |
| I realize Liz is in the UK, but in the States, is that not what Certified Mail is for? And for certain things, I knew of one daughter of an IRS employee who would always drive to a local office and get her copy receipted, or rather she did until the time they misposted an 18K check, whereupon she was dunned again. | |
| 3 July 2008 | |
| I agree with D&T. The “timely mailing as timely filing” rule of Sec. 7502 is nice to rely on, especially with the limited 30 days for a Sec. 83(b) election. I have had overseas clients send their signed 83(b) elections to me in the U.S. so that I could then mail them in using certified mail. This way there is no doubt regarding proof of filing.
You can't get the same certainty from mailing outside the U.S. However, using consistent procedures for filing these types of documents, copying/scanning the envelope (to prove it was sent and to prove the address was correct), and getting some sort of receipt or certification from the local postal service would assist in proving that the document was timely sent. | |
| 3 July 2008 | |
| Yes, all well and good, we've got proof it was posted - but what does the IRS do? Lets say the IRS gets it. They don't keep a file on these things, do they? What if you made an 83(b) electioned fifteen years ago? They shred everything they get after ten years. Or for that matter, a sale of a house under the old rollover rules - it's all shredded after ten years. Once they've shredded stuff, they have no proof that the TP's are acting under IRS guidelines. Does the IRS seriously ever look at, follow, track, trace or otherwise follow up on the issue? Do they link these to their returns in the year of acquisition? They can't possibly do so in the year of disposition if it's more than ten years passed.
Well, at any rate, at least we have our proof. But the lawmakers are nuts, if you ask me. This whole "stimulus" check deal was a complete waste of taxpayer's money to pay the IRS to process these cheques, to create helplines and hotlines explaining the cheques. It would have been so much cheaper for the government to just lower everyone's tax bill for 2008 by $300, refundable upon filing their 2008 return. | |
